Why is private liability insurance not really a thing in the UK?

[DontBreakTheMingVase]

Just came across yet another MN thread by someone (understandably) very stressed about accidental damage caused to someone else's property. My first impulse on this type of thread is always to post something along the lines of "Don't worry, I'm sure your insurance will cover this no problem!" - until I remember that hardly anyone in the UK seems to have private liability insurance.

Now I get that you can easily waste lots of money by being over-insured for all types of random / unlikely things, but private liability insurance is just such a useful thing to have. No falling out with friends after you spill wine on their laptop, no issues with your landlord because you let the bathtub overflow, no big bill because you broke the bed or shower screen at a hotel, etc.
Where I'm from the vast majority of people seem to have private liability insurance, even though I wouldn't say you'd be massively more likely to be sued than in the UK. It's not even expensive, I think we pay around 100 € a year and it covers DH and me for any damage up to 15 million Euros or something. I'm generally a bit clumsy and often a bit "head in the clouds", so it's very comforting to know I won't end up in financial difficulty for knocking over someones Ming vase.

Can anyone enlighten me why this has (to my knowledge) never really taken off in the UK?

I’m 41 and I’ve never done anything that would require this. Sounds like a colossal waste of money.

I think not letting your bathtub overflow is just standard behaviour really, surely? And contents insurance will include accidental damage.

Contents insurance includes accidental damage.

I'd say most people are not so clumsy or self-unaware as to cause thousands to millions of pounds worth of property damage. 🤔

My friends DD had a minor accident on her bike, causing damage to a parked car. In a country where public liability is normal, so all sorted easily.

I had public liability insurance when I was a childminder. I don't anymore though. Don't think I need it

Is this the same as public liability insurance?

Lots of UK domestic insurance policies have liability cover included, which covers accidental injury to people on your property.
Property/possession damage should be covered by contents or building insurance.

Because we don't really have much of a blame culture here.

I mean, if I was visiting a friend and split wine on their carpet, their insurance would cover it and I'd just cover the excess. If I flooded the bathroom, my home and contents insurance would cover it.

Why would I need even more insurance?

It’s often covered in other policies. My dog’s insurance policy covers me for whatever havoc she may wreak eg tripping a runner. Car insurance covers any accident claims. Home insurance (or possibly building?) covers me if a tile falls off the roof and takes out an innocent bystander. Travel insurance covers me for accidental damage to a holiday cottage or hotel room.

For the laptop - you’d offer to pay the excess when the friend claimed in their contents insurance
For the landlord - if you’re a tenant your contents insurance can (and should if you can afford it) cover accidental damage to the landlord’s property
For the hotel - travel insurance covers accidental damage

I have combined house and contents insurance and I’m pretty sure it’s always been included in mine automatically - not that I’ve ever specifically asked for it.

No thanks op, we’re too Americanised already.

I’m not clumsy enough to have actually needed my private liability insurance lots of times and my examples were just that - examples, not things I’ve actually done. The reason I asked is this thread where poor OP has had their holiday ruined and possibly their savings wiped out because there doesn’t appear to be sufficient insurance on anyone’s side to cover the damage (broken door and fire / smoke damage at a glamping place):
www.mumsnet.com/talk/parenting/4614955-i-dont-know-how-to-get-past-how-angry-i-am-with-ds

This sort of scenario just wouldn’t happen here, I think. Ditto the many threads where a child has knocked a phone out of a friend’s hand / ruined a coat and there’s a disagreement about who should pay („Should have had phone insurance“ / „Shouldn’t wear expensive clothes“, etc)

Situations where I was glad that I or the other part had private liability insurance:

• Tipsy guy on an e-scooter knocked me over on the pavement, I broke my arm, needed an operation, couldn’t work for a few weeks and lost a fair amount of money (self-employed). The other party’s insurance covered my loss of income.

• Someone knocked a brand new iPhone out of my hand in a train station. Their insurance covered the damage.

• In a bar a woman spilled red wine on my quite expensive beige suede bag.

• My neighbour’s teen son scratched our parked car with his bike. Neighbour’s insurance paid out, didn’t have to go through my own car insurance affecting my premiums for years to come
• I stumbled over someone’s (badly placed) laptop cable at the uni library and pulled down and damaged their pretty high-spec laptop
• Friend sat on our white sofa in new coated black jeans, colour rubbed off / bled into the fabric and couldn’t be removed (sounds like this one might be covered by many people’s contents insurance in the UK?)

All of these were sorted fairly easy without awkwardness, an argument or a law suit thanks to insurance. It sounds like some of these might be covered by other types of insurance in the UK (if you have a good / comprehensive house insurance policy for example)?

Obviously none of the above would have financially ruined any of the parties, but then there are cases where that could easily happen. Off the top of my head I know two people where this would have been the case without private liability insurance. An acquaintance caused a very serious cycling accident. The other cyclist had life-changing injuries and is now in a wheelchair, had to retrain, have their house adapted, etc. This sort of thing would probably bankrupt just about anyone. The other case is also an acquaintance who basically caused a freak-accident (won’t go into detail as very outing) at a large event, leaving another person with a very serious head injury (several weeks in hospital, months of physiotherapy, some permanent damage and a big loss of income). Would any of those be covered by any type of insurance in the UK? Not being goady, just genuinely interested.

Not sure why people immediately jump to accusations of "blame culture" or "being too Americanised". IMO, if you damage something or injure someone, you pay and try to rectify the situation. Unless you're extremely wealthy and can make good whatever damage you caused out of your own pocket, making sure you're covered by insurance is the responsible thing to do. Why should the other party be left out of pocket (and at worst possibly reliant on benefits as in the cycling accident case above) for your mistake?
Private liability insurance is not just a US thing, by the way. Very normal in several European countries that don't particularly have a blame or litigation culture.

Are you Dutch OP?

Nope, I'm German, but I hear most Dutch people also have personal liability cover.

Well, the way to protect an iPhone is surely just to buy a good phone cover. Mine has survived being dropped facedown on a tube platform.

And I just wouldn’t buy a white sofa - that’s absurd.

Then what next...? insurance for damage to someone else's feelings?

I don't live in the UK but private liability insurance isn't a thing where I live either (Ireland). I already pay for life insurance, house insurance (includes contents cover), motor insurance and mortgage payment protection. That's a lot of insurance.

I had a quick glance at the examples you listed in your post

Tipsy guy on an e-scooter knocked me over on the pavement, I broke my arm, needed an operation, couldn’t work for a few weeks and lost a fair amount of money (self-employed). The other party’s insurance covered my loss of income.

If this happened to me, I would claim sick pay from my employer/the state and my mortgage payment protection would probably cover my mortgage payment(s). Since you're self-employed, I'm assuming you would have some form of insurance to cover you in the event that you were unable to work due to accident or injury. In any case, it's very unlikely the e-scooter guy would wait around long enough to pass on their details.

Someone knocked a brand new iPhone out of my hand in a train station. Their insurance covered the damage.

I'm not an iPhone person and my phone is worth considerably less than an iPhone. So I would just shrug my shoulders and buy another phone. If I owned a very expensive iPhone, I'd either get phone insurance or see if I could get it covered on my house insurance (contents).

In a bar a woman spilled red wine on my quite expensive beige suede bag.

You'd want to be really stupid to bring an expensive suede bag to a bar. In my youth I had a suede jacket. I got it dry cleaned once and it cost me a small fortune. I vowed there and then that I'd never buy anything suede again.

My neighbour’s teen son scratched our parked car with his bike. Neighbour’s insurance paid out, didn’t have to go through my own car insurance affecting my premiums for years to come

I'd consider claiming off my car insurance but it might be cheaper in the long run to pay for it out of my own pocket or save up for it. It simply wouldn't enter my head to claim off a teenager (or their family) when the damage was accidental.

I stumbled over someone’s (badly placed) laptop cable at the uni library and pulled down and damaged their pretty high-spec laptop

I doubt very much the uni would sue you. They would be hoping that you wouldn't sue them due to a accident caused by a Health & Safety lapse.

Friend sat on our white sofa in new coated black jeans, colour rubbed off / bled into the fabric and couldn’t be removed (sounds like this one might be covered by many people’s contents insurance in the UK?)

See comment above about the stupidity of owning a suede jacket.

I honestly have never been in anything like any of the weird situations you’ve described. Someone accidentally spills wine on your bag and you want to sue them? It’s just life. You shouldn’t be so worried about everything all the time.

plus if you’re claiming left right and centre hundreds of times I’m pretty sure it’s more than £90 a year….

I did have a phone cover, but the phone still got damaged.

You think white sofas are absurd? Okay. Thankfully we all have different tastes. The issue would have been the same with a beige sofa, by the way…but I suppose one could always buy wipeable black pleather or something instead. I could also have worn a padded full-body suit in case I get knock over by an e-scooter, used a plastic bag instead of suede bag and protected my parked car with bubble wrap. All clearly my fault and a typical case of evil Americanised blame culture.

A begging thread isn't a reason to take out unnecessary insurance.

Someone knocked a brand new iPhone out of my hand in a train station. Their insurance covered the damage.

You should have your own phone or contents insurance to cover that kind of damage.

In a bar a woman spilled red wine on my quite expensive beige suede bag.

That's just "one of those things". Annoying but part of life imo. Not something I'd ever consider suing someone for 🤷🏻‍♀️

My neighbour’s teen son scratched our parked car with his bike. Neighbour’s insurance paid out, didn’t have to go through my own car insurance affecting my premiums for years to come

I'd either go through insurance (that's what it's there for) or the parents of the teenager would pay. It would never, ever occur to me to sue a teen for an accident.

I stumbled over someone’s (badly placed) laptop cable at the uni library and pulled down and damaged their pretty high-spec laptop

They should have laptop insurance in place to protect against things like that.

Friend sat on our white sofa in new coated black jeans, colour rubbed off / bled into the fabric and couldn’t be removed (sounds like this one might be covered by many people’s contents insurance in the UK?)

Yep - contents insurance.

There's absolutely zero need to have "private liability insurance" in any of those sceneries!

I have public liability insurance with my house insurance so if one of my trees fell on someone or if a slate blew off the roof and hit someone I'd be covered. I think most UK homeowners do.

But I'm not covered for personal accidental damage, if I tripped and spilt some wine etc. I haven't ever caused damage to anyone's possessions beyond cracking a glass while helping to clear after a meal, I apologised and no-one seemed to mind.

I have a teenage son, but he's been raised to be careful of other's possessions too, not to cycle near the neighbour's cars etc. Neither of us has needed personal insurance yet. It sounds like overkill to me.

If this happened to me, I would claim sick pay from my employer/the state and my mortgage payment protection would probably cover my mortgage payment(s). Since you're self-employed, I'm assuming you would have some form of insurance to cover you in the event that you were unable to work due to accident or injury. In any case, it's very unlikely the e-scooter guy would wait around long enough to pass on their details.

Yes, I do have insurance for loss of income though long term sickness, but not if it’s only a few weeks. Funny that you’re basically saying people are wasting money on private liability insurance and then tell me I should have this covered by a different type of insurance.

E-scooter guy did wait around and was extremely apologetic. I imagine the fact that people know mistakes will be covered by insurance makes them less likely to run away and more likely to own up.

I’d consider claiming off my car insurance but it might be cheaper in the long run to pay for it out of my own pocket or save up for it. It simply wouldn't enter my head to claim off a teenager (or their family) when the damage was accidental.

Claiming off my own insurance would have affected my premiums for years and it wasn’t just a small scratch which I wouldn’t have been bothered about. Neighbour came to me and told me about the damage (wouldn’t have known who had caused it otherwise) and insisted on taking care of it through her insurance. I think there’s just a significant cultural difference here. People don’t see it as mean or grabby but a neutral, normal thing because everyone is covered by insurance. If you damage something you just pass on your insurance details and that’s that. Makes for good neighbourly relations as well.

I doubt very much the uni would sue you. They would be hoping that you wouldn't sue them due to a accident caused by a Health & Safety lapse.

I never mentioned anything about the university suing me. But the other student had a broken laptop. It was probably partly his fault because the cable shouldn’t have been on the floor, but it was easily sorted and why would I leave the poor guy stranded when I should have been watching where I was going?

Friend sat on our white sofa in new coated black jeans, colour rubbed off / bled into the fabric and couldn’t be removed (sounds like this one might be covered by many people’s contents insurance in the UK?)

People on here must have interesting taste in furniture and interior design if white sofas are considered so shocking / stupid / unusual.

The majority of home insurance policies include £2.5 million of personal liability insurance as standard. This can cover a variety of things if the policyholder or their family members that live in rgw household are held legally liable for injury to a third party (not whilst driving, that's under your car insurance) or third party property damage.

Funny how posters are having a go because of my white sofa or suede bag, but nobody has bothered to answer what would happen in my cycling accident and head injury examples. I agree that you probably don’t necessarily need private liability insurance for a damaged phone or laptop (although it seems to people may be more likely to take responsibility for their mistakes when they have insurance), but if you injure somebody or cause significant damage (accidental fire or similar), it’s a very different story IMO.

You should have your own phone or contents insurance to cover that kind of damage.

So private liability insurance is "unneccessary" / "overkill" but I should have several other types of insurance to cover the same event? My contents insurance wouldn't cover this, but probably costs less in return, so it just looks like different ways of solving the same problem.

That's just "one of those things". Annoying but part of life imo. Not something I'd ever consider suing someone for 🤷🏻‍♀

I'm not sure why people keep talking about me wanting to sue anyone. I've neither wanted nor needed to do this because people owned up to their mistakes and their insurance took care of the damage, no problem at all.

I'd either go through insurance (that's what it's there for) or the parents of the teenager would pay. It would never, ever occur to me to sue a teen for an accident.

Christ, people really are hard of reading tonight. Never mentioned anything about suing a teen. His mum insisted on reporting it to their insurance company who paid for the repair. No argument, no lawsuit, no hard feelings from anyone. How is this different from "the parents of the teenager would pay"?

They should have laptop insurance in place to protect against things like that.

Why should they / their insurance pay for my mistake?