Horses in the Army

[Kite22]

I've been wondering about this since watching the parades to do with the Jubilee in June.
Whereas I can admire the horsemanship and the discipline, and certainly admire the ceremonial aspect of the armed forces riding horses - is there any cause for horses to be used in defence of the country any more ?

I know very little about horses, but presume it must cost an absolute fortune to stable, feed, kit out, care for (medically), and transport all the hundreds of horses the armed forces use, and am just wondering how it can be justified through every review of spending there has been in the last 75 years, say ?

It’s a promotional tool. The bearskin hats don’t serve any practical purpose either, in fact they’d probably make it harder to fight if it came to it, but it’s good PR.

They're used for ceremonial purposes only.

Some regents have animals as mascots too.

"Regiments" - sorry !

I've seen the mascots, but can't help thinking an Irish Wolfhound or a goat is going to be cheaper to maintain than 300 horses

Same really for a Bearskin. Probably cost a ridiculous amount to buy each one, but I don't think they have to feed them or maintain stables etc for them

Ceremonial but historical. Life Guards and the Blues and Royals are still mounted. Regiments such as Hussars and Royal Scots Greys have proud lineage of battle honours. It's all costed into the defence budget.

Should also say a main battle tank or Apache helicopter costs a lot more to buy and maintain than 300 horses

The Chinese army keeps a flock of carrier pigeons some thousands strong to relay messages in the event technology fails or is taken out.

Don't underestimate how much horses could help in such an event. Sure, they're not going into battle on the front line anytime soon but that does not mean they have no practical use.

If there was an EMP they would be good.

I believe you, but I can't help thinking that a tank or an Apache helicopter is going to be a lot more useful in a battle in the 21st Century ?

My great grandfather was on his way to France on this day in 1914 with the 16th Lancers. The cavalry fulfilled a vital role screening the infantry in the first month of the war and were then largely held in reserve as shock troops to make the most of any breakthrough that might happen. Largely they became obsolete as mounted troops with the onset of trench warfare and the emplacement of machine guns. Two years later the first ranks appeared...

Fast forward to 1939 and the polish cavalry, on horseback, courageously went into action against the German panzers and their deaths pretty much saw the death of horse-mounted cavalry.

Nowadays there's no operational military value in mounted troops.

Here he is on his horse, a year or two before he went to war.

Tanks, not ranks

That's a wonderful bit of history @Damnloginpopup . How wonderful to have a photo to treasure.

Thank you - we have quite a lot from his 9 years in the Lancers. He left the Curragh on the 14th August, the day his son was born and was wounded on 23th September on the Aisne. That was the end of his career.

Here's one just before they shipped...

...and another when they had a game of pushball. He us second from right, looking towards the barracks (I think this is Colchester Cavalry Barracks, around 1910).

I'm ambivalent about military horses in the 21st century, but pushball, mounted or otherwise, looks like fun.

Surely most defensive spending is pomp? It also covers equally ridiculous things like sports tournaments overseas for military personnel but, strangely enough, you never see the Daily Fail in a froth about that.

I don't know much about the military budgets except there often seem to be complaints about cuts in the defence budget, and it just struck me that if they are genuinely as strapped for cash as things like health, social care and education, then looking at the millions it must spend on "decoration" or 'pomp' or 'ceremonial' or whatever you wish to call it would probably be a good place to start.

Yeah, I imagine pushball was good fun. Probably some bizarre military use too, other than keeping everyone occupied. Jumping had more benefit.

Tent pegging was useful too I suppose. If you could pick up a playing card with the point of a lance at the gallop you'd be eminently qualified for skewering the enemy.

Here's some pomp for you. Riverside road in Norwich.

There's a scene in warhorse where a regiment gallons through the German lines. The awe I felt watching at the cinema is indescribable. My blood ran cold when they then got hit by the machine guns. Kind of illustrates how they became obsolete.

Anyway, enough of my derailment 😁 hope you enjoyed the historical photos - all apart from one of these have never been published. I've got loads more and shared them with the regimental museum years ago so they aren't completely hidden away privately.

With regard to budgets, ceremonial elements are a defined military commitment.

The Household Cavalry, Guards etc are on the establishments as Public Duties Incremental Companies (PDICs). These cover x number of posts, their ceremonial uniforms & equipment, horses for the cavalry elements etc and the budgets for them. The soldiers go on tours of PDICs and then back to ‘normal’ soldiering in the relevant regiments.

If ceremonial duties were taken out then the budget would not be released to the rest of the Army to spend but wouldn’t be in the Army’s budget and the soldiers wouldn’t become extra soldier in the regiment.

The budget would go back to the government, the size of the Army would be cut - and the combination of less roles and less soldiers would mean quicker rotation back and forth to operations.

@Damnloginpopup Wonderful photos.

Most defence spending is not on pomp.

The majority of spend is on equipment and salary.

Sport could be argued as a benefit if what you seen is soldiers going off on sporting jollies.
But they are required to keep fit, inspired to be the best at what they put themselves to and to work together to achieve a goal - all of which are vital to be applied as military skills.

There are many sporting opportunities in the Army and other services, but have varying levels of support depending on how that sport contributes to the goals of the Army etc.
It could be a personal thing, and they get to do it in their own time and a degree of sport time.
It could be partially supported and they get to use a minibus to go to events
Or it could be fully supported, they compete for places in official uni, corps or Army wife teams with all the travel etc

Thanks @Tomikka

Useful to have someone with a bit of actual information helping me understand, rather than just my random ponderings.