Lasting power of attorney

[Lifeadmin]

I’m perfectly fit and healthy, run 5k every week, but I’m 62 and starting to sort out lasting power of attorney, online. It’s possible to do it yourself online and save money. But I’ve got to the bit where you decide when the LPA becomes active. The most popular choice appears to be from the date it is submitted, I trust my children and husband, but what is to stop them banging you up in the attic once everyone has signed the document.

It only kicks in if you are judged to have lost mental capacity so having LPA does not permit your nominated people to make any decisions on your behalf unless you lose capacity

Do they get a certificate to take with them to say I’ve lost capacity and who would they get it from?

@StopFeckingFaffing this is correct with regard the Health POA but NOT the financial POA which can be activated when it is written.

OP They would have to have the piece of paper to use it so you could lock that away somewhere - but in reality there is no legal way to stop it as otherwise you would not activate it. You can choose not to activate it and just have the documents ready - but then there is nothing to stop your beloved from sending them in to register...

LPA for finance can kick in whenever you want, it doesn't have to wait for you to lose capacity.

It's LPA for health and welfare that only kicks in when you lose capacity.

There are a lot of advantages to having the Finance one activate as soon as, which is why most people tick that box.

For example my DM still has capacity but she is finding it harder to manage her finances. I can do it for her as I have LPA but she knows exactly what is going on.

OP they can't bang you up in the attic as soon as it is signed as:

1. It only applies to finances so no authority to bang you up in an attic


2. Financial companies will only deal with them if you have registered the LPA with them, you can't just phone up the bank and say 'I have LPA for Lifeadmin, transfer me all her savings' - so get the LPA and only do the registering when it seems necessary


3. Your LPA can only make decisions reflecting how you would have made them, in your best interests. So they can pay your electric bill for you from your bank account, but not use your money for the holiday of a lifetime in the Maldives.

The loss of capacity for the medical POA needs to come from a medical professional - a psychiatrist I assume.

Say, I’d met a nice foreign 25 year old prince, could they stop me marrying him

@LittleOwl153 it doesn't need a psychiatrist for the Medical One.

Any Health Professional should be able to assess capacity for the issue they are dealing with. Capacity is specific to each decision - so you might have capacity to decide what you want for dinner but not capacity to decide on having a major operation.

There are 4 elements to capacity in the Mental Capacity Act and any HCP should be able to do this, or ask for help. But very often the situation is obvious eg you are unconscious, or have severe dementia. They should always try to see if you can make the decision - some people with dementia will be able to make the decision and others won't be.

I have seen family members saying 'I have LPA!' and that's been very nice but the patient has been perfectly able to speak for themselves.

@Lifeadmin marriage is not covered by either LPA.

The registrar should assess whether you have capacity to understand the nature of marriage, but this is a very low bar.

Vulnerable people being conned into marriage for their inheritance is a real thing.

what would you advise for someone my age who is still fit and healthy? I’m planning on submit a power of attorney document and a lasting power of attorney document. My DD is a Dr and know my wishes to DNR.

Have a look at making an advance decision -compassion in dying has a good one you can tailor. It's legally binding, unlike your average dnar.

I would advise:

You don't have to do either LPA if you don't want to. If you only do one, then do Finance, and forget about it until you need it.

Have a serious think about why you want to do Health and Welfare. Are there decisions that you feel incredibly strongly about? So strongly that you would put them in an Advance Decision to Refuse Treatment? I don't usually recommend these for people who aren't ill, as it's hard for them to imagine what they will actually want. Also if you have them written by solicitors they often don't work in practice as it needs a lot of medical speak to make them stick.

Even for DNACPR, there would probably be times when you were happy to be resuscitated eg in the middle of an operation.

If you write an ADRT it applies immediately, so if you are fit and well it's hard to put into words what you actually want and when. Probably for this reason you see very few about, and most are very badly written.

Also think about if your chosen Attorney is up to the job. It's one thing for your daughter to be saying 'I know she said she didn't want CPR' and another for her to be actually making the decision. I've seen a lot of attorneys be overwhelmed with what they took on, when a simple Best Interests Decision in which they were consulted would have been easier. As your daughter is a doctor, she may be happy with it but don't take it for granted.

So have a think about why you really, really want a LPA for Health. Talk to your DD about it. It probably would suit you better than an ADRT if your daughter knows you really well as she can adapt to the circumstances, while an ADRT is inflexible. Or you might think you don't want one right now and it can be left/not done at all.

You say do a LPA now and then forget it about it until it’s needed. How would that work?

Under what circumstances would it be activated.

thank you all for your knowledge

LPA for Health and Welfare - you register it with the Court of Protection, file and forget. It is then only active if you have lost capacity and need a health or welfare decision making. This might never happen your whole life! It doesn't need an extra paperwork to make it active.

LPA for Finance is not my thing. However if you register it with the Court, say you want it to work straight away and again forget about it. Then when you want it to work, say you are elderly and frail, or your Attorney wants it to work - you can't deal with your finances any more, you start showing it to people at the bank to get them registered to act for you.

Thanks so much that’s cleared a lot up. Mumsnet is like the Hitchhiker’s guide to the galaxy

I'd add to other PPs that an advanced directive, often now called ADRT, can be done by you, without registering it anywhere. There are examples online, and I did my own - colleagues witnessed it, and my GP and local hospital all have copies. My nearest and dearest are aware of it too. For example, I don't feel I could personally cope with being paralysed from the neck down, so have said not to treat, but could cope with using a wheelchair, if I had movement in my arms. It's very personal, but worth some thought.

One advantage of the Health and Welare LPA I have heard is that it gives the LPA holder the right to choose where the care needed is placed in a residential care situation (obviously within the financial constraints) without it the council/social care providers views take preference.

I have not had to use this element so it is only what I've heard...

My stepfather was assessed by a elderly mental health nurse and a doctor working for the DOLS team. He wasn’t a psychiatrist.

I agree with @LittleOwl153 that the real benefit of the LPA for Health and Welfare, is not for the sort of medical decisions you are thinking of -there is a tried and tested way of doing these for the 99% of people who don't have one, but for decisions about place of care and longterm moves.

Then the LPA has a lot of power as they are effectively speaking as you.

@Soontobe60 DOLS is a whole different kettle of fish!

DOLS is specific to people who don't have capacity being deprived of their liberty - so going into a care home which then locks the door so they can't get out would be the most common example.

This seems to be an absolute mine field. I’m not sure that as society we spend much time thinking abound of life provision. All these things you might need to put in place before you needs them, it’s like divination.

*about end of life provision.

Well you don't need an LPA for Health and Welfare. Most people I see rushing to get them at end of life, really don't need them.

Where they are most useful is for dementia, but even then you can manage without.

LPA for Finance is more common. And I'd say this is the one you actually need. Because the backup mechanism of the Court of Protection is slow and expensive - think relatives having to pay the bills for months as they can't access your bank accounts when you suddenly had a head injury. It's useful even if you don't lose capacity but are just ill and can't sort stuff.

Not many people have a ADRT. They really are for people who have absolute views on something. Outside of end of life, this would include Jehovah's Witnesses having them to say they would always refuse a blood transfusion. In end of life, it's usually people refusing treatment no-one wanted to do anyway eg insisting they have a DNACPR when CPR was no way on offer and there are much easier and better recognised ways to record it locally. Or people who can just tell you what they want as they can talk to you.

I'd say I mainly see them from people with neurological illnesses - they know they risk not being able to communicate so a lot of treatment gets discussed and they know exactly what their life is like so make very informed decisions.