What specifically are the problems with dying intestate vs with a will, if you want intestacy rules to apply?

[PetitesVoix]

A couple of years ago I posted asking for advice about my PIL in their 70s who don't have wills because they basically want everything to go to each other, then to adult children exactly as per intestacy rules.

I got lots of nice responses but didn't feel anyone posted a good 'reason' for them to go to the expense of making wills if it would all shake out how they wanted anyway. Can anyone set out specifically what the problems are that occur without wills?

People generally said it was 'a headache' 'a nightmare' but having no experience with these things I'm interested in what and why the headaches are.

For info: they and DH's siblings all love each other dearly, there is no animosity and all siblings comfortably off, PIL live very simply and rurally, their mortgage is paid off, there is zero chance of hidden assets, secret families, affairs, anything like that. Just a house and land. I feel they are perhaps slightly financially naive, but generally with-it and active etc. Lovely grandparents, they are just sweet people.

I mainly want to see if there's anything particular that the siblings can raise if there is a good reason to get wills drawn up. I think they just don't see the point (they dealt with their own parents' deaths but I know wills had been in place for ages there) and I feel uncomfortable talking about it with them as I don't want to seem money-grabbing or morbid, but they would listen to their children. They would certainly want to avoid the kids being put out or having to pay loads to deal with it but I have no idea if this is actually the case.

I don't care who gets anything, just want to avoid an administrative or costly quagmire or deal with any unanticipated issues.

I didn't have to do anything like this for my mum - she died earlier this year with no will. I just applied directly for letters of administration (what you get instead of probate if there's no will). She had simple affairs and her entire estate will be less than £200k, all her financial papers were VERY WELL organised and it took just a few hours to get the wheels in motion for all her bills/accounts.

The only problem is that I know my mum had wishes to provide for her gc, and with intestacy funds are split as per the rules, it is up to the beneficiaries (not the administrator) how that money is spent/saved/invested for gc/blown at the bookies.

Write a will
Simplify your financial affairs
Let folk know your funeral wishes

Oh please get them to make a will.

In what is a seemingly straight forward situation, my parents are still struggling to get probate on an estate where the first death occurred in 1972. Because neither of the couple made a will, the surviving spouse stayed there until their death in the 90s and a family member who lived in their house just basically stayed there and drank away their life savings until they died 4 years ago.

Also, without the long drawn-out process of conveyancing selling my mum's house, I reckon everything would have been done and dusted within 3 months even without no will. But as I say, her affairs were ridiculously simple.

You can download a simple will template and you can ask a non family member or beneficiary to witness. It doesn't have to cost a penny apart from printer ink. It will speed things up. It's a good idea to include any specific requests for their funeral too. Copy and place in safe places

Power of attorney is more important and not free alas.

This. Someone I know was not joint owner of the house. The value meant that she got the house but the money also in sole accounts of the deceased went into trust for the children.

It makes things so much easier. My Dad worked in a role where he often came into contact with people sorting out things after a death where there was no will. Even if there is very little money it can be a pain in the backside trying to access it. Also remember people often want to access the money to pay for the funeral itself.

A beneficiary can't witness or their benefit under the will does not take effect. You need two independent witnesses who are present with the testator at the same time. If you use a template, please make sure it's from a legitimate source AND that you follow the instructions correctly!

One thing to think about is if one dies and the one left needs to go into a home. We used a will writer to protect the half interest of the person that has died so it cannot be used later in care fees for the spouse.
So, mil died recently and her half of the house and money is held in trust for her children. Nothing has changed, fil us still living in the house. But if fil needs to go into a home, only half can be taken in care fees as mils half is held in trust

Just going through the responses - thanks all.

I hadn't heard of this proving there is no will - I'll look into it. Aren't they registered centrally?
They haven't moved at all for most of their adult lives.

I understand this but 'you need a will in case your children fall out' is not a reason they would consider valid or worth acting on.

It's not quicker, easier and less expensive for PIL to spend money on a will - even £99 - than to do and spend nothing. I need a concrete reason for what costs and resources will be incurred if they don't!

Once the first person dies the house is 100% the other persons to do with as they wish.
Yes - this is what PIL want to happen.

They have never and will never travel on a plane but yes this is a good point. I don't really relish bringing this up in conversation though!

In what way, though, please? The costs and time resources are the specific things I'm looking for. What is the difference here between dying with a will and without? What processes are different, what costs are incurred?

@PetitesVoix - it’s impossible to be specific as everyone’s circumstances will be different people can just tell you in general it will be more complicated and take longer. If you need to engage a solicitor it will be more expensive as there is more admin involved.

I don't think there are any - what sort of things do you mean? They have the house and an old car and that's it.

No-one needs to convince me of the value of a will in general - DH and I have drawn them up and are glad we did so. And clearly it'd be nice to know their wishes. But their wishes are that the default inheritance process takes place. (I think they must have looked into this once and decided they were happy with that).
I'm trying to think of anything that won't be covered by this so thanks for everyone's ideas!

I'm talking about the circumstances I described in my OP. What complications might arise in those circumstances that they haven't thought of?

I promise I'm not trying to sound arsey but without specifics I'll be in the same boat 3 years later.
What dictates whether you need to engage a solicitor?

Also remember people often want to access the money to pay for the funeral itself.

I think this might be the best discussion point with them - what are their funeral wishes? that might lead on to 'how to pay' and then 'you might as well get it all down in a simple will'.

That's a good point. My own parents have done that.

FIL is a fair bit older than MIL so I think a general discussion about what they imagine will happen and what they want to happen might be in order. I just know that it's not my place to chip in with this, but DH and the siblings are not at all clued up on this sort of stuff and even so won't want to bring it up.

@PetitesVoix - I mean it really really depends. Santander tend to be quite good, I can tell you with bitter experience the DWP and Nationwide are really difficult to deal with without a will. Even the most simple looking of affairs can have unforeseen circumstances, and it is all just smoother to deal with with a will. But then you may be lucky and it’s all fine. It’s such an unknown. I’d almost view a will as a form of insurance that the deceased wishes will more likely come to fruition. I would also want to make the process as painless as possible for my descendants. My MIL has a “when I die” folder, maybe morbid for some but I am most grateful for it and am making my own!

DH's grandad died and then six months later his (DH's) mum died, then just another six months later his granny died.

Nobody had wills so it took an age for the solicitor to map out what would have gone to whom and when. As a PP said, the spouse gets the first however much, then the remainder is split between their children. However, because DH's mum passed away, he took her place in the order of succession. Some accounts were joint, some in sole names. Then add in the fact that the only other beneficiary, DH's arsehole uncle, lives abroad... argh. So, even though the assets were only going to the two of them, it wasn't a case of just splitting it into two and paying out.

Your PIL's plan sounds reasonable enough but you just don't know what the future will bring.

Same. I did the probate for both my parents and it was very simple. I’m sure it would have been A LOT more complicated without wills.

What’s their objection to making wills @PetitesVoix?

My mum died without a will. It was easy. Bank released funds to me straight away. I applied for letters of administration instead of probate.

I actually thought it was probably too easy as it relied on my honesty. I didn't have to prove no will or that I was the only person inheriting or anything.

Compared with a friend whose mum had an old will that was drawn up years ago and named now elderly ill relatives as administrators it was much easier!

My uncle died without a will. No-one disputed what should happen to his estate, he had little, a widower, only one child. Still took three months for his next of kin to get probate.

He was a solicitor.

I’d almost view a will as a form of insurance that the deceased wishes will more likely come to fruition.

That's a great way of putting it Plum!

I'm not entirely sure what their objection is, just that it's unnecessary as they can just let it all go through as it is, which is what they want, without having to deal with any solicitors or go through finances or whatever - I think they want to avoid faff. I could be completely wrong though - I didn't want to push it too much when it came up 2 years ago! It might also be that they think it's something that's only really needed if you have complicated affairs/family etc.
I know they had an endowment mortgage back in the day (paid off now due to inheritance) and hadn't really realised you could get compensation for being mis-sold or whatever it was, hadn't made particular plans to pay off the capital etc - so I think they're just not interested in financial stuff, which is a bit odd as they're very up on politics etc. (all this is a bit third-hand!)

Things have ticked along for them ok for the past decades so I guess why change anything?

Anyway, I'll see if DH can form a plan for him and DBIL to sensitively bring it up. Especially as free wills month is coming up soon.

Bank accounts, investment accounts - do you have a good overview of what they have, values, and what is joint and what is sole names? Not really possible to say whether intestacy will be problematic without that kind of detail.