If you were a teacher or administrator at a large comprehensive school in the 1980s or earlier, please can you answer a question?

[Antarcticant]

I was at a large comprehensive in the 80s - about 1200 pupils - and I have lately been wondering how timetables were worked out for such a large number of people, without the benefit of computers. Where did they start? How did they avoid clashes, double-booking of rooms, teachers etc?

If you can shed any light on this I would be fascinated.

I work at a fairly small secondary, but we were still doing it with 4000 tiny coloured magnets on a huge board a few years ago. It’s still around somewhere. It’s done by computer magic now, but it’s still the maths teachers that do it. We also ask all Year 11 students what they want to do for A-level, and then build a timetable that works for all of them (instead of giving them blocks to choose from). My brain can’t even begin to imagine how to do it.

I remember asking my form tutor in the 90s and got a similar type of answer.

GCSE options were in blocks with fairly limited combination options e.g. couldn't do history and geography as they'd be pooled together as most would select one of the two.
There were fewer GCSE subjects in the 90s compared to the 00s.

As I got to GCSEs, the scale of the size of the school and timetabling it suddenly occured to me hence asking.

Ours might have been - I didn't have an older sibling to compare my timetables with, and by the time my younger sister joined the school I was in the fifth year so my first year timetable was long forgotten.

Our maths teacher used to do it. Large 8 form entry with 6th form. The fantastic part of it was that he stopped taking maths lessons for the last few weeks of term so he could work on it .

Why doesn't it stay the same every year?

GCSE options were in blocks with fairly limited combination options e.g. couldn't do history and geography as they'd be pooled together as most would select one of the two.

Yes, same for us, although mine was the first year people were allowed to do both French and German - you had to drop a subject from either Art/Music/Drama or Business Studies/CDT/Home Economics to do that. More of a 'thank goodness' for me to drop one of those than a sacrifice, as I wanted to do both languages.

At the school I attended it was done by the deputy head, who was an MFL teacher. He used to take over a room in the basement and had a huge board covered in index cards. I was sent there with a memo for him once.

In retrospect I imagine they used the same basic model every year. Our option blocks were pretty tightly controlled with choice only within certain limits, eg everyone must do at least one language, choose from Latin / French / German / Spanish, everyone does one humanity, choose from history / geography/ RS etc. Triple science wasn’t an option.

😂

The range of subjects taught did seem to change from time to time, especially when GCSEs came in which was mid-way through my time at secondary school. For example, in my year everyone started French in the first year and then German in the third year, but by the time my sister started they'd changed it so half the first years did French and half did German, then only the top sets went on to do a second language the following year.

Different needs eg I have no KS3 teaching next year, just exam classes, contrasted with this year where I have had 11 KS3, 3 GCSE and 2 subjects at A-level, so 3 classes there as well.
Some teachers go part time, some go full time, some leave, some come in and can only teach certain year groups.
Timetabling is an absolute nightmare trying to balance the needs of staff and students - I just let our deputy head do it and make the finished product work in my dept.

Falling and rising roles and part time teachers, different options and subjects.

I could never get my head round how it was done and for the first registration period with my form group had written out their timetable on the board for them to copy. Only I noticed they were meant to have me when I was teaching another year…
So that was 40 registration periods with nothing to do. I think we gave them that morning’s lessons and crossed our fingers. Amazingly it was resolved by afternoon registration.

Yes, very similar arrangement in my school. You could do double but not triple science.

I do our school's timetable.

There's software that makes the recording of it quicker and easier these days, but the thinking part of it is still the same process as when done manually. It usually takes me 3 good solid weeks... and then redoing it at times during the year because of long-term staff illness etc...
It is absolutely the favourite part of my job though, always astounded that I'm actually being paid to solve a logic puzzle! It feels like quite a responsibility though that it's my decisions that dictate the patterns of the days and weeks for 1000 students and staff for the year.... I try to get a good distribution of lessons across the fortnight (we have a 2 week timetable) and to not have the same lesson on Friday session 5 both weeks for anyone! We also make our option blocks around student choices in both Y10/11 and 6th form.
Must admit I always breathe a sigh of relief on the first day when there aren't 2 classes in the same room, or students wandering around without a lesson to go to!

This’ll blow your mind @Antarcticant
The french educational system was so centralised that the minister of education knew exactly what page any child was on in any subject. I remember a conversation with cousins, eg: they all had English after break on a Tuesday 🤯

It feels like quite a responsibility though that it's my decisions that dictate the patterns of the days and weeks for 1000 students and staff for the year

Yes - it really did change the whole character of the week if the timetable was favourable, with lessons you liked at the end of the days; or alternatively that sinking feeling on getting your timetable if your last lesson on Friday was with Mr Jones the dithering Geography teacher who was incapable of letting you finish on time, or your least favourite subject.

I'm glad that teachers recognise this

Oh, good grief! That's bizarre!

The school where I work used to run the new timetable for the last two weeks of the year until very recently. I really liked knowing that the kinks had already been ironed out before September but it did mean we had to dig deep to find the energy to assert ourselves with new groups at the end of the year.

Antarcticant

As posters have said it hasn't changed for many schools.

The programs that can do this (ish) often make mistakes as they don't seem to be able to match teacher availability to classes required.

Was there ever like a 'holding pen' style classroom for when the timetable just didn't work out? I. E. double booked?

Great thread, op

Thinking about it, I've come across various software packages at work that' are supposed to work out shift patterns vs. staff availability and resourcing needs, but none of them ever work flawlessly - I suppose it's a similar thing.

I used to do the departmental timetable for my subject in a college over six sites, with evening classes. I had a list of subjects/times/days, the teachers' wish lists and travel times. Equipment was lined paper, individual staff timetable templates, pencil and rubber. I loved it.

In secondary I well remember the massive board with magnetic bits. Not my job, I hasten to add.

In my school in Victoria, the timetable design was always separated from the making, the tech bit, as the two knowledge and skill fields could not be guaranteed in the same person. It was all computer-based.

My school did this. Still does. It's very much a thing in Victoria. Yes, the colossal effort required to put your game face on.

Op thanks for the education tonight.

I've thought about how they did it and assumed that it was based on the previous year. But it sounds so complicated.

Was it easier back in the 80s? I dont recall there being as many subject choices, as much turnover of staff or even parttime teachers. I think the column choices were more restrictive too.

I like it! It keeps the end of term meaningful. It is reliant on fairly stable staffing with low turnover however.