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[content warning for child abuse]: Leiland-James's bereaved mum interviewed by the BBC

19 replies

DanteThunderstone · 28/07/2022 08:37

What a sad story. Poor little baby. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-62290696

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EllieQ · 28/07/2022 08:41

I read that that morning. Heartbreaking. It’s didn’t really explain why he was removed from his birth mother - she wasn’t in a relationship while pregnant, and the social workers were saying she would be able to keep him.

Also very upsetting to read the comments from the women supporting victims of domestic abuse about women who had their children removed after they left their abusers.

SueSaid · 28/07/2022 08:49

Tragic case but we've seen too often how social services don't always seem to act when children are at risk, they will have had a very good reason to do so here.

I've sympathy of course for the birth mother but her side of the story will not be the full picture. Children aren't removed because the mother was in an abusive relationship years ago.

Bemyclementine · 28/07/2022 08:58

Very clearly not the full story about why he was removed or indeed why the previous children were removed. Still a terrible outcome.

LydiaBennetsUglyBonnet · 28/07/2022 09:02

I always roll my eyes when people naively say ‘children aren’t removed for X’. You’d be surprised how social workers - and Cumbria as in the OP’s link, are especially abysmal (remember Poppi Worthington) - can make leap after leap to get to the point where a perfectly good parent is having their child removed.

I’ve posted about this before but when my DD was 5 she made a disclosure about a male family friend. Thinking I was doing the right thing, I reported him to the police. Biggest regret I have. DD for the date of the allegation wrong because he couldn’t be in her presence at that particular time - but she gave a detailed description of what he did to her and children’s memories aren’t infallible. Anyway I thought as a family we’d get support. We didn’t - the police dropped it and meanwhile childrens services hung around looking for bad guys within the family. Including my older SS and DH. They claimed things were relevant, such as I was a victim of sexual assault 3 years before DD was born - parroted on about cycle of abuse. BecauE I didn’t disclose that from the off (why would I, this was about my DD) they said I was a ‘dishonest woman’.

I was distraught about the disclosure, and expressed this to my SW and said I was struggling to sleep and work - she used this against me and said she had concerns about my capacity to cope with the children.

Another ‘concern’ was that we didn’t tell more people in our family - even though my mum, best friend and MIL all knew and were supporting us but I didn’t want anyone else knowing.l and the police themselves told us we could t say anything to anyone.

They can take ANYTHING about you and make it look bad. Before you know it, they have built up a case against you, based on random information that’s irrelevant, and to social services it seems to be about quantity not quality.

Despite the investigation being dropped, they wanted to step up our case because we were ‘hostile’ to SWs (yes I am I was expecting support not accusations), we were ‘dishonest about our past’ (no I just didn’t say I was sexually assaulted in 2009 the second they walked through the door) and ‘refused to engage with family and friends’ (despite the police told us not to, but apparently that’s irrelevant).

They didn’t step it up but only because our solicitor stepped in, at a huge financial cost to us, and challenged their intention to step up.

they’ve backed off now but if my kids go to hospital with a broken bone, or if they say something odd in school, it could well be flagged up and SS are there once again popping up and building a case against us. If either of them are sexually assaulted in their teens or something, it starts again.

Rest assured, it doesn’t take as much as you think to remove a child and it could happen to you even if someone outside your family harms your child.

Littlebluebird123 · 28/07/2022 09:15

Even if she wasn't in the right frame of mind to look after her child she seems to have been doing everything you'd expect in order to get there. Frequent visittion etc, support from an agency. It doesn't make sense that he'd be put up for adoption.
Having worked alongside children in these situations SW usually want to keep them with the family and especially someone as engaged as this mum.
It doesn't look like they did the appropriate checks on the foster mum's relationship and they were aware of her struggles but weren't supporting.
So many red flags and warnings that this wasn't a suitable placement.
I know they are overworked and Covid made things difficult but this is an epic failure. That poor little boy. :(

SueSaid · 28/07/2022 09:17

I'm sorry you experienced that @LydiaBennetsUglyBonnet, however I would suggest that is the exception not the norm.

'They can take ANYTHING about you and make it look bad. Before you know it, they have built up a case against you'

Why would they? Why would they want to? They have massive caseloads why would they make stuff up. It isn't in their interests to increase their workload for starters and of course not in the child's best interests to remove them from safe environments.

I'm not for a minute suggesting mistakes don't happen like in your situation but there will much more to this tragic case than the birth mother will have disclosed.

Bemyclementine · 28/07/2022 09:28

A court has to order the removal if a child though, don't they. Due to my line of work, (not a social worker but involved in a different way) unfortunately I'd take everything the mother has said with a great big dose of salt.

It is shocking that the Foster carer was approved tbh,knowing what people have to go through. The article dies say that SW were not supporting te adoption.

LydiaBennetsUglyBonnet · 28/07/2022 09:33

Why would they? Why would they want to? They have massive caseloads why would they make stuff up.

Indeed. I agree and couldnt figure out what was going on. At the time they were in special measures and Poppi Worthington had just died (fairly local to me) so not sure if they’d been told to put cases under extra scrutiny or what. But the fact that they were in special measures, they were officially a shit service, and we had to let them into our lives - well no statutory obligation but the one time I said I’m sick of you you don’t support me I don’t want a visit, it was essentially put down as a black mark against us. Please don’t think social workers can never be bad at their job or that they never take a personal dislike to a family.

headstone · 28/07/2022 09:36

Social workers failed the mum and the baby. Whilst they admit to failing the baby, there doesn’t seem to be any acknowledgment to want they did to him mum. The eulogy they wrote 😳 . This wouldn’t happen to higher income women.

WillitFit · 28/07/2022 09:38

Maybe it's wishful thinking because we want to think it's not possible, but why would overworked social workers go out of their way to make things look worse than they are? Surely a good outcome for them is that everything's fine and they can leave well alone. And in any case, the court ordered the removal.

It's a desperately sad story, but I doubt we've heard it all.

redredredredlorry · 28/07/2022 09:40

I don't think this is the full story. In my experience, parents are given far more opportunities than they often deserve before a child is removed. Focus is always on keeping the children with the mother.

headstone · 28/07/2022 09:43

Redredredredlorry the baby was removed at birth so not the case here. I think the criteria for removing at birth seems to be less strict possibly because babies are easier to adopt.

LydiaBennetsUglyBonnet · 28/07/2022 09:57

As an example of how a small fuck up that’s unchecked can make a big impact.

I made a subject access request after SS involvement to form part of a complaint to them (I actually ended up getting an apology for the director of childrens services about the way we were treated). After one home visit their notes said “Lydia won’t get support from family including her sister who she is close to and could provide emotional support to her. I’m concerned about this situation next the circumstances, she comes across as wanting to be secretive”.

I don’t have a sister.

I have no idea why they thought I did or where that came from. Neither do they. But that error paints a picture of a person that I am not - and if you’re building a case against a family, the devil is in the detail. And if the detail is wrong, you’re fucked. And whatsmore - nobody cares. They can fuck up as much as they want and they’re not sorry, they won’t admit errors, nothing gets done. And if you don’t kiss their feet and say thank you for your shit involvement, they see it as a concern.

Trust me, I’m not a stupid woman or conspiracy theorist, but incompetent people ARE in these professions and it could happen to any of you any time through no fault of your own. Just look at the way they treat victims of DV. Even when they manage to get out of the violent home, a case is built against them. And they wonder why women don’t leave more often.

LydiaBennetsUglyBonnet · 28/07/2022 10:00

WillitFit · 28/07/2022 09:38

Maybe it's wishful thinking because we want to think it's not possible, but why would overworked social workers go out of their way to make things look worse than they are? Surely a good outcome for them is that everything's fine and they can leave well alone. And in any case, the court ordered the removal.

It's a desperately sad story, but I doubt we've heard it all.

It’s more than that - there’s a whole big picture around social care in this country. Social workers are covering their backs lest they be in the next serious case review. And I don’t actually blame them. There’s a lot of pressure in the job. Loads of box ticking. Experienced workers are leaving the profession, lots of new starters with no mentor to help (because they’ve all left), increase in agency use whereby someone who lives 100 miles away, doesn’t know the family, or community, swoops in and leaves another SW to pick up the pieces. Meaning I formation gets lost, doesn’t translate properly and in the meantime the families are stressed, and no support is offered to anybody.

Despite instances of abuse not really changing in the last 10 years or so, removal of children has increased hugely. The Panorama documentary that was on the other night covered it really well

LydiaBennetsUglyBonnet · 28/07/2022 10:04

Look at the way they’ve tested the poor birth mum. She wasn’t involved into the inquiry into his death. There is institutional sexism in all corners of public service, including this one it seems.

Either way that poor little boy was failed somewhere. As was his mum. I understand the social worker wanted him to be removed from the foster parents and because Box Ticking Matters they e decided to wait for the next meeting after Christmas. And he was murdered before then.

Something has to change.

ParsleySageRosemary · 28/07/2022 10:05

The Beeb ran a story a little while ago about the rising number of kids in care, linking it to poverty. There’s a lot of questions toask about this: (obviously a lot of questions to ask about everything in this damn country).
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-61669939

redredredredlorry · 28/07/2022 12:25

headstone · 28/07/2022 09:43

Redredredredlorry the baby was removed at birth so not the case here. I think the criteria for removing at birth seems to be less strict possibly because babies are easier to adopt.

She claims her previous children were removed because she asked for help to leave an abusive relationship. That is highly unlikely.
A child removed at birth would happen if the mother hadn't showed an improvement from the circumstances surrounding the previous removal. This would be discussed and assessed at length throughout the pregnancy.

headstone · 28/07/2022 12:56

redredredredlorry well yes if the social service team in question do their job properly. I think it’s fair to say in her circumstances they didn’t.

DanteThunderstone · 28/07/2022 16:49

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cumbria-62332463

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