Do you live in Switzerland? I have questions…

[Fallulah]

Came back recently from a holiday to the chocolate box/tourist/hiking parts of Switzerland. We were wondering about a few things as you do when you go to a different place. None of these questions are intended to offend!

The big wooden houses - are they more or less expensive to build than a ‘normal’ house? Does the wood have to be renewed after a certain amount of time, like thatch does?

The same wooden houses just sometimes seem to be in the middle of grassy landscapes - how do you know which land is yours as there don’t seem to be any boundaries? What if you have a dog? There are no fences?

Did Switzerland not have covid particularly badly? They pack people on to the cable cars and trains like sardines and there is nothing suggesting people might want to wear a mask even if it’s not mandatory - we were frequently the only people in them on the transport, which was packed with people from all over the world.

When you live in Switzerland, do you realise how expensive it is or are wages a lot higher to compensate for the fact, e.g. a small bottle of coke is 6CHF?

Are languages pushed a lot more in school than they are in the UK? Pretty much everyone in the tourist areas seems to speak Swiss, German, French and English!

Do you just feel really smug all the time that you live in such a beautiful, clean, well organised country?!

Yes, I wouldn't last five minutes with that!

I really love this!

I lived in Switzerland for a bit and recognise everything uti says. DP and I used to compare daily what we had been told off for that day. I got called a hooligan for crossing on foot at a crossing when the light was red, but there were no cars. A middle-aged man shouted it at me and he was really angry.
I had a woman tell me off very sternly for asking someone if my DD could stroke a dog. The owner said yes and DD stroked the dog. The woman said I was totally wrong to do this.
Switzerland is not really one country though. There is Swiss Germany where I was, Swiss France, Swiss Italy. The rules are not as strict outside of Swiss Germany.
There is a real drug problem with a lot of young people using drugs. This surprised me as it seems such a conformist society, , maybe they need an outlet?
I lived there a few years ago and most mothers did not work. There was a big emphasis on mothers doing elaborate craft projects with children at home.
There were almost no convenience foods - I know I searched for them!
Child activity standards were pretty shocking. Loads of under-fives in a hall with a few women supervising them. No parents allowed.
Loads and loads of rules. We lived in an apartment and there were communal washing machines in the basement. You were allocated a weekly slot to do your washing. You could try and swap it with someone else, but you could not use the machine outside of this time. You also had to clean and dry the machine and surrounding areas after use.
It is very family friendly in that family are extremely important and society revolves around the family. Sounds lovely. But it means if you are not part of an extended family it is easy to feel isolated. It is very very hard to make friends. Everyone seems very busy with their family and friends they have known since childhood and do not really have the time to fit in new friends.
Children have lots of freedom and play out together. It is seen as a big milestone when a child can walk somewhere themselves and the earlier the better. I was seen as very overprotective because I would not let DD walk across the large village herself crossing roads.
People usually went home for lunch and a siesta.
Most people rented although strangely you always took your own light fittings with you. Apartments would be rented with no light fittings.
The scenery is amazing. But I was glad to move back to Britain.

This made me laugh as it is exactly the reaction I would expect.

Switzerland is wonderful for a holiday. Travelling by train is easy, and very reliable and the scenery really is amazing. But the culture is incredibly different. I think my neighbours thought I was a borderline criminal when in Britain I am very much viewed as a conformist law-abiding woman.

I have family in Switzerland and have asked similar questions, so this is what I have found...

Farmhouses tend to stay in the same family.

My family's home isn't timber, was bought via an agent although its a weird living set up with the neighbours who owned the entire complex at one point. Odd people, when I last stayed over, I had a very heavy period and apparently they went through my rubbish to ensure I was putting recycling where it should be. Apparently they got a real shock when they opened one of my ''parcels''...

Their snowfield chalet was timber and that was bought and sold via a normal agent who specialised in that area's real estate.

The cheaper social housing blocks being built look like concrete boxes and apparently upset a number of the population.

Farm land fencing is usually temporary electric tape/cord moved daily. My Family's residence has hedges on the boundaries but the dog lives indoors and only goes out when a family member goes for a walk, which is very common and several times a day.

Cars are registered in the canton (district) where the owner lives, and the registration fee etc is based on the Canton's social economic environment, so for instance Lucerne is a relatively expensive place to live, so their registration fees are more expensive than say Bern. You can tell where a car comes from as the numberplate has an abbreviation on it for that Canton.

My family shop over the border in Germany. I have been with them, never saw a border manned but always advised to take my travel documents. Food is imported into Switzerland, some of the produce was grown where I live, and I thought considering the distance travelled, wasn't too bad in price. Meat is expensive though...

Everyone generally is polite, helpful although can be distant. Multi-lingual.

The self employed relatives carried on travelling during COVID and also continued with overseas holidays, just undertaking RAT tests before we ever saw any in our country. They have now all had 4 jabs.

Most cantons have mixed property types. In my family's one, they have residential housing, forestry, farmland and a big recycling centre, in the township some horses are kept in open stables and its all just accepted as is, no ''not in my backyard'' attitudes.

My Family's shelter stores their wine harvest! The main one nearby is locked (which I couldn't figure out who would have the time to unlock it in case of need) but stunk of urine and old cigerettes, so potentially not as clean and looked after as it should be.

Zurich train station never has enough euros in the ATM machine so make sure you have plenty if catching a train into Italy for example...

What a dopey thing to say...

No, the control is very consensual.

I have loved reading this thread to reminisce and chuckle over all of the societal quirks and rules. My parents lived in CH for 15yrs (Zurich mostly, plus 1 yr in Geneva) and I lived with them for a year when they first moved out till I got bored of nannying and thought I’d better put my degree to good use so came back to the UK.

All my holidays throughout my 20s and early 30s were spent there, absolutely beautiful place. Love Lucerne and Gruyères, esp’ the freaky Ginger museum. Loved visiting Globus and Jelmoli in Zurich, miss the variety of things and quality of food in Migros.

Our house (late 90s) build was just being finished when we moved in. My dad slowly turned the bunker into a pseudo garage using the beds as shelving. The other 5 neighbours had wine cellars instead, so ours was the designated house to go to.

Went back for a day visit when holidaying in southern Germany in 2019. Boy oh boy had I forgotten how expensive it is. We exchanged just enough cash to get some bratwurst / baguette, plus cokes for lunch and nothing else. Mind you, I still have some Francs leftover which I must trade with my mum & dads friends who frequently go to visit their DS who stayed out there.

UTISympathies I have a friend whose ex is from there born and bred and she is now living in Ireland and would never move back. You could be sitting in a cafe and if children are at the table and laughing those Swiss will point their finger at you at the next table to tell you off. It is as you say and even in schools if you do anything small they will send you to a psychiatrist. All of what she said is exactly like what UTISympathies has said so is not over the top it is all true. While it is good for neighbours to look out for you it is not good to be policed by them which is what happens.

Another thing pal told us who is from there is that there are not the regular type of bars but there are loads of strip joints in just one small area of a small village which they did not like at all. Also as someone else said many younger people get into drugs as society is very controlled and that would suit us all who are older as like peace and quiet but when you are younger you need to let your hair down and people do tend to stick to the friends/groups that they know. If you have money it is a great place to live as so expensive.

Intellectual property wasn't really a thing at the beginning of the industrial revolution fwiw

Same in Basel area. Many switz or French live in france, shop in france and take advantage of high switz wages

Wages in Switzerland for comparative job in uk were around 50% higher in my company

however, IMHE , my switz colleagues were much better employees. They took on responsibility and accountability for their outcomes at a much more junior level. They appeared to be better educated for the same roles even if they didn’t have university degree. They worked very hard in terms of not wasting time and working the hours needed to complete work not watch a clock.

it may be just my company that found exceptional talent in our 3 sites in Switzerland, but I suspect it is deeper routes across the country.

I have to say I'm not surprised at people experiencing racism. It's not a very mixed place and attitudes to non-Swiss inhabitants e.g. born in Portugal who have travelled there for work can be unpleasant. The political setup is most unusual too, with referendums every five minutes on various issues, e.g. banning new mosques and gay marriage. It's quite progressive in some ways (self-ID, drug injection rooms, Dignitas[ but not at all in others (women granted the vote on local issues in Appenzell in 1991!!!![.

I hesitate between 'it's an amazing place to live' and 'there are some downsides'.

• outdoor activities, scenery, cleanliness, ease of travel to other countries

• rules, telling other people off, racism, dislike of foreigners, expensive healthcare, eye watering cost of everything.

My son was standing beside a small lake and some stranger came up behind him, grabbed him and went as if to push him but held on to him to teach him a lesson that he could fall in. He insisted that he was just teachinv him how to be safe. A friend parked in the wrong space (a private space right next to spaces for the business she had an appointment at..) the owner blocked her in and then made her pay 100chf to move or he would call the police. Eye watering speeding fines, utility costs, medical costs.

We pay a lot for medical insurance but even the co pay element really adds up, lots of things prescribed but not all covered by insurance, huge discrepancies between semi private and private cost despite only a smalk amount in the insurance premium, you get extensive testing for everything which is not always necessary and does not always improve outcomes..

Racism and misogyny, being told that a man will tell your husband about your behaviour, the banking system assumes the man hold the purse strings, childcare and school hours do not support women working, being told at interview that one didn't need a big salary because your husband had a job and being offered a lower role instead of the one applied for that you are well qualified for. Recently, one of the large investment banks apponted their first female managing partner, the gender pay gap is 20% versus the UK's 15% and females make up 35% of company boards versus the UK's 45%. The gender gap in traditionally low paid and part time work is also greater than the UK. I have seen Swiss residents originally from eastern european countries be offered less favourable mortgage terms than less well paid western Europeans, and people openly blame 'Eastern Europeans' for swathes of issues. The far right party has some shockingly racist election posters. Refugees and aslyum seekers are treated appallingly but there has been a marked difference with Ukranian refugees (an issue not unique to Switzerland).

Switzerland has a shocking record on selling arms to be used in conflict, again not without peer, but for a country that holds its neutrality so highly it only joined the UN in 2002, this raises questions.

No where is perfect.. not least Switzerland.

I had a Swiss-Canadian friend from the German part who lived in Geneva 40 years ago - I went to see her there for hols a couple of times and was amazed by the set-up of society overall. Some things which stick in my mind: an honour system for paying for newspapers in the street (I was assured that if you didn't pay you'd be caught); not crossing the street except at the right time by the signals under pain of being fined or shouted at in the street; the arms trade seemed everywhere (Suzanne's job to see her though being a student was as personal secretary to an arms trader); and the general regulation by consent of the society which made a trip to the supermarket seem like a visit to church. Suzanne had a black friend from the Caribbean who seemed to undergo a personality transplant when she was in Switzerland (I knew them all as language students in Spain). I remember that her Chinese origin friend was also excessively modest at all times.

Amazing really, and not in an entirely good way.

What a fantastic Mumsnet strand this is.

Usually there is obvious signage with regards to private parking places, I would also be annoyed if someone parked in mine. Maybe in your friend's case there was no sign? I doubt that though.

With regards to expensive things, the salaries are quite high, even minimum wage.

My bank hasn't assumed that my husband is the big boss of our bank accounts, neither has my workplace.

No country is perfect, but I like living here. I haven't experienced anything like the PPs have mentioned with rules etc. Maybe it depends on the Kanton.

"It is seen as a big milestone when a child can walk somewhere themselves and the earlier the better. I was seen as very overprotective because I would not let DD walk across the large village herself crossing roads."
I forgot to add that DD was five at the time!!
And agree it is a very racist society. Also seemed very backwards in terms of dealing with domestic violence and child abuse.

The pros are that public crime is very low, streets are very clean, I love how most cars are parked in underground car parks so the streets look very neat and tidy, and vandalism is incredibly rare.

But overall I hated living there and would never recommend it unless you love following every tiny rule and are fine with neighbours reporting you for very minor infractions. If you are the kind of person who phoned the police because your neighbour went out a walk in the first lockdown for longer than an hour, you might love it there.

Wow, wonder where she lived ? I think in some small villages xenophobia could be an issue that's for sure.

We are a mixed race family and my husband grew up here, we have never experienced racism of any sort. Geneva has so many international organisation HQ here, the UN, Red Cross, ILO, WTO. Walking the streets of Geneva certainly reflects that diversity.

.

"There was a huge influx after the Arab spring , as people looking for safe havens for their dodgy £££ rushed out of conflict areas. "

Lots of Russian Oligarchs here too !! now that life in Russia is even more difficult, they now live between here and Dubai.

Forgot to add Londongrad to the Dubai and Swiss location of Russian money !

I agree with @Helvetic , it's very international here and that's a big part of the appeal for us. People have been nothing but welcoming but we do make an effort to speak French and mingle (not something that all expats do).

It is never assumed that DH is head of the household either. I was the breadwinner until we had DC.

But I can appreciate that the further you go away from international cities such as Geneva and Zurich, the more these things can appear.

But that's not just Switzerland, I am from a small mining community in the UK and that's not exactly the most open minded place...

We have another family friend who’s Swiss and his ex wife is Arab. He has made his life here as he says he wouldn’t subject his children to the racism he knows exists in Switzerland. I have to believe him that it exists.

Much longer track record of that.... it was Lenin and colleagues' hang-out too.