Can anyone tell me about UK Birth Certs (from the 1960's) please?

[54isanopendoor]

Just looking at my Birth Cert
(a 'certified copy', watermarked, looks original? )

Qu: 1: It is filled out by the Registrar, not signed by either parent so would this be the original or a copy? Can I see the actual Register online for free ??

Qu: 2: My Mother was married, but is listed not in her legal married name but in the name of the details of 'my Father' ie as someone else's wife & gave their address too. So she gave false info. I wondered if this affects it's legality?

does anyone know please? OR how I could find out?

So it sounds like your mother turned up and registered you as if she were a married woman and could therefore name the man she claimed to be married to as your father. He may or may not have been present.
Presumably there was no requirement to provide ID or proof of anything else. She probably did commit some sort of offence by providing false information.

@hedgehoglurker thank you.

Yes it is all part of a difficult backstory.
I have made diff threads as different bits have 'come out' / preyed on my mind.
Plus I was recently contacted by someone I've not seen since I was 16, who told me a different version again 'now she's dead'. She spun quite the web...

Re money - I have, as suggested by another person on a different thread, contacted a contentious probate lawyer & been informed that, as a child of the marriage, who was brought up as Miss actually Married to Mother's child then I would have a claim as a child of the marriage when Dad passes if he has any estate (apparently whether he leaves a will or not). That's a route I could take.

It just occured to me that Mother's version of my birth & what my Cert says might tell a different story as it were so I wondered what was 'standard' for that time. It is painful to try to unmesh it, but necessary to move on.

My own marriage has sadly foundered after 21 years but I can say that both my children were wanted, born whilst I was married to their Father, & know to try to take care of each other when I am gone. That is something.

As pp have said, start with a DNA test by Ancestry, depending which blood relatives have done something similar you may be able to establish links with members of your fathers family. This would then give you the answer.

i appreciate why you wouldn’t want to ask an 88 year old for a DNA test but does he have other relatives e.g. sister/brother, niece/nephew etc. you could ask to do a DNA test. Alternatively you could sell it to him as a fun thing to do.

The other option is to get a solicitor and possibly get a court order for your brother to do a DNA test. Just to confirm you will not be in any trouble for possibly having false information on your birth certificate, your mother is sadly no loner here so there are no repercussions. You have done nothing wrong and the courts will help you to establish your true parentage. This will obviously cost money.

Putting everything else aside knowing who you are, and who your biological parents are, is a big deal. For those of us who know this without question it’s hard to imagine how someone who doesn’t know their parentage will feel. You have an opportunity now to resolve it, I know it’s hard to ask an 88 year old for their DNA but you may come to regret not doing it now.
Good luck

Did the lawyer say if there was a way to establish your dad as your legal father, BEFORE he passes? Via their marriage at the time of your birth and your mum using a fraudulent name (assuming she did it for fraudulent reasons rather than it being the name she actually went by).

If you left it until after your dad passes, I imagine your brother will spend any inheritance to prevent you benefitting, and the legal challenge will be too costly to be worthwhile.

Would it also make your dad happy to establish you as his?

Copy birth certificates are just copies of what's on the GRO register.

You can also get a copy of the register from the local office. Sometimes there are transcription differences.

I'm just going to revise that. I don't know if local copies are always available. It may depend on the registration process at the time.

I have ordered a local copy for one of the births in my tree as the information appeared to be inaccurate. It was available for that birth locally but may not be the case for all years.

I understand that at least at some points in time registration was done locally and then the information passed to the GRO for their register and sometimes there were errors at some point in that process.

Would the death cert and believe it or not birth cert of the now deceased 'other man' yield some clues ? What about his marriage certificate ?

Your mother's marriage certificate ? Her parents marriage and death certificates. It's sometimes surprising where you find clues.

Is there a slight chance your mother could have been married to your father at that time and that is the bit of information is true, and you have been led to believe that that s incorrect?

The BMD site mentioned above also gives marriage info, so you could trace back your mothers marriages by looking at your birth on there which lists your mothers MAIDEN name and then you could search for that name and see exactly who she did/was married to, it won't tell you exactly who your father was but may fill in some of the pieces?

My understanding is that (even) in the 60s a married woman living with her husband / living in the martial home could register the birth with her husband as the father without him present. In other circumstances such as still legally married but living apart a letter / legal document signed by the father accepting paternity might suffice rather than his actually being there, if the parents were unmarried the presence of the father in person would generally be expected in order for him to be on the certificate which is why so many said father: unknown - it wasn't that the mum didn't know it was that the registrar/state didn't 'know' if she was telling the truth.

Trivial point but what a brilliant typo @howdoesatoastermaketoast . Martial home indeed. The place does sound like a war zone. 😂😂

@ThomasinaGallico freudian slip but I believe it to be an accurate and fair descriptor of my gp's marriage.

Fathers' names can be put on the birth certificate in two situations.

1. When the mother is married. The mother can then list the name of her husband on the birth certificate irrespective of whether or not he is biologically the father.
2. When the mother is not married and the father attends the appointment with the mother and accepts parentage.

It has never - since the start of civil registration - been possible for an unmarried/divorced/widowed woman to name a randomer as the father of her child and have this written on the birth certificate.

DNA testing through a site like Ancestry may resolve this but you may need another member of the family such as a sibling or cousin to test too.

Also to add - Registrars accept what they are told and do not ask for proof. If you say you are Jane Jones, married to John Jones, a builder who lives at 32 High St, that's what's put down. It's not the job of a registrar to challenge, if they suspect fraud then they can refer to the police but that is usually with fake marriages rather than fake fathers.

I see it's already been suggested but Ancestry DNA may help work out who your biological father is. You'll be able to see other members who are genetically related to and with a bit of detective work you may be able work out if some of them are related to one of the men who may be your father.

Thanks to everyone who has replied. It has been helpful to me.

I have now got a 2nd certified copy of an entry of birth.
It's indentical in all ways except there's a signature for my 'Father' & one for my mother. So he WAS there & he DID sign it. She has signed in His surname. Her maiden name listed but not her real Married name at that time. So: she forged it.
She lied at the beginning & she kept lying all her life no matter the cost to me.
(sent me to School in the wrong name, lied when I asked, kept me away from 'real Father's family', lied to the Police later about my CSA as a child). Just a liar.

If I went down the DNA route I could probably establish parentage clearly.
That would be useful as then I would just 'qualify' & my Brother would 'have' to behave better, inform me of what is happening in family? but maybe not ...

Dad is 88 & has no siblings / rellies left.
I only have my (half?) Brother who will not speak to me so that would be hard.
There is no one I could approach on 'real Dad's side' (would that even help?)
I'm not sneaking around with hairbrushes & dont' feel comfortable about Court.

The lawyer I spoke to said that I could ask for my share of Mum & Dad's house if it's still around when Dad dies as a 'child of the marriage' & given my own financial circumstances. Even if I am not Dad's child, then I think morally 1/4 of the house should be offered to me (so Brother gets all of Dad's half & half of Mum's half as it were) but I know he won't behave properly.

He has been awful about the Funeral & even was about her death, not informing me of updates (partly because he didn't even bother to find out himself - I was excluded but she had a pitiful death after I wrote to him to alert him she was ill).

The last time I saw her my Mother spoke of this (after, she was in /out of hospital until the night before she was returned to die at home). She was speaking about her Funeral (wishes not followed by Brother after). She spoke about God. She spoke about her worries for me & my children. She said she hadn't made a will but that 'your Brother will look after you, you only have to ask'. I must have rolled my eyes a bit (he hasn't spoken to me for 21 years now, since I disclosed my CSA which 'upset him'). She got quite aggressive & said: 'I think I know my own son better than you think you know your brother'. I said nothing.
But she was wrong. He wouldn't cross the road to put me out if I was on fire.
None of them ever would - this is just the last evidence of that.