Neighbours with access through our garden....

[Ishacoco]

We've only just moved and they're ghastly. Moaning about everything from where we park our cars, to what time our gates get closed, to when we draw our curtains - you get the idea.

Now, they have pedestrian access through our garden from the back door of theirs through ours, to the street. They use this to take their bins through, wheelbarrows, etc.

My question is - does having pedestrian access mean they're allowed to do this? Or is it literally supposed to be them walking through the garden? I'm only curious because they seem to be using it as a chance to be nosy and scowl at us if we're in the garden. It's a real pain!

Whilst I do sympathise too, this advice is wrong. If they have right of access over your land they have full right of access whenever they want, with no knocking or permission or cooperation from you required. If you have a lock on any gate between their garden and the street you must give them a key, and you must not hinder, delay or obstruct their access at any time (including requiring them to knock)

This is important because their house without direct access to the road but right of access across your land is intrinsically worth more than the same house with no right of access. If they do not insist on their rights being upheld and the rights lapse through lack of use then the value of the house goes down. So don't be a dick about their rights.

But they have no right to scowl at you, nosey through your window or make any comments about how you live your life in your own home, so long as you aren't obstructing their rights. It's totally fine to tell them to mind their own business for any of that.

Thanks everyone! The driveway is a very small one so realistically no prospect of parking any of our cars there (one each for me, DP and DD) and still leaving room for access.

Today was a nightmare, they were having work done on their garden and there were multiple tradespeople going back and forth all afternoon, driving the dog mad! Currently the garden is split into two with a trellis fence and a gap in the middle so the dog isn't fenced in at all. He's ever such a good boy but obviously delighted to see all these new people so I had to shut him inside all afternoon (with us, not alone) which was sad when it was so hot and he was enjoying lying on the cool patio slabs.

Neighbours have also taken in a delivery for me a couple of days ago - annoying because I was in the house when DPD 'tried to deliver' and definitely nobody knocked or rang. Maybe the neighbours ambushed them?? Anyway, I've tried several times to go and collect it but they won't answer the door 🙄 It's my new garden furniture and I want it!!

Have you got the deeds yet?

Surely you’re not still considering buying it though OP? 🤔

What is your landlord saying about this? And what do your deeds show?

Anyway, I've tried several times to go and collect it but they won't answer the door 🙄 It's my new garden furniture and I want it!!

Just follow one of the tradesmen in?

Get proof of delivery OP and put a not through the door that you will be contacting 101 about their refusal to hand over your property.

Your LL sounds like a cowboy not telling you the truth.

I would absolutely contact the council and police over their behaviour.

Tell the LL that you are lodging complaints too, so that he has to tell any future buyers about the nightmare neighbours next door.

So dishonest of him not to tell you that your garden will be trampled over all day every day.

I would be furious.

You must not buy this house. Seriously. Just put up with it stoically and get out.

I know people keep using them interchangeably, but a right of way is a completely different thing to a right of access. Your neighbours sound outrageous.

Omg do not buy it! Look elsewhere. This property will be a nightmare.

A right of way and a right of access are both just different forms words - the only way to know exactly what the right grants is to look at the title. PPs who have suggested any different are only basing it on circumstances they know about. There are thousands of different wordings of grants or rights, some of which are more successful than others, and quite a lot of cases on related disputes.

OP - until you have the title, which arrives instantly by email, no one can advise you further with any accuracy.

Just park on your drive or lock the gate. When they charge over to complain, ask them for your parcel.

Genius idea 🙂

Gosh, it's not often people get to try before they buy with a property. I think without the access issue, to find out you have not the nicest neighbours before being stuck there for x number of years before being able to move is a blessing. Now you have time to re look at the market and see what else is out there. I'm sure there will be something which you'd be happier living in.
Hope you've got your garden furniture from the neighbour. I'd also folllow a tradesperson when they walk through and speak to the neighbour that way.

Or this! Perfect

A right of way and a right of access are both just different forms words - the only way to know exactly what the right grants is to look at the title. PPs who have suggested any different are only basing it on circumstances they know about.

Sorry, you are wrong. A right of way has a start and end point allowing the dominant tenant to traverse the servient property. A right of access gives you access to property or land, usually to carry out a function such as maintenance of your property, or to service a septic tank, to give 2 possible examples.

But, it is absolutely correct to say that the exact wording on the deeds is needed, provided that is on the deeds of course!

No matter how nice the house is, it’s not worth this hassle. No wonder it didn’t sell. Keep house hunting, I wouldn’t buy this one.

We need a diagram.

If you love the house that much, if the gate is elsewhere could you move it to the bottom or side of garden and fence it off? I'd build the highest brick wall I could, just to make a point. And make it only as wide as it needed to be by law. Basically make it as unpleasant as possible.

@Brahumbug without wanting to go back to property law first year as you must know (and as in Street v Mountford) it isn't what a document or clause is called, but the effect it has that is important. So something called a right of access would still be effective as a right all the way across the property provided it otherwise met all of the criteria. Even if ideally it wouldn't be drafted that way.

A lot of estate covenants were and still are poorly drafted (I've seen far too many of them as part of bulk freehold transactions) so I think it's important to not make an assumption that it will be "labelled" correctly. That's why OP should make no assumptions at all until they've seen the wording. If it exists.

I am well aware of Street v Mountford. That doesn't alter the fact that a right of way has a start and end point. I agree that many clauses are poorly drafted which is why I said the op needs to see the relevant deeds. It maybe of course that he right of way is on neither of the deeds and has been established by prescription.