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Where was the epicentre of the big bang (universe) in relation to us?

118 replies

CheeryTulip · 08/07/2022 21:10

Just curious Grin Behind the sun or behind Pluto?

OP posts:
AnaïsM · 09/07/2022 00:43

That’s an unevidenced proposal, made over a decade ago, and unsupported since.

You claimed that a white hole had been observed, are you actually going to show that having happened? This falls into the same category of speculation as the faster than light neutrinos caused by a faulty cable a few years back.

This is the problem when you speculate without even a basic education in the subject.

Are there any other major areas of science where you think that you know better than the experts in the field? Is relativity flawed, for example, or quantum mechanics all wrong?

Penguintears · 09/07/2022 00:44

Covidagainandagain · 08/07/2022 23:53

When I think about this stuff I can totally understand why religion happened. I don't believe in God personally, but I can also understand why its easier to believe that there was a creator guiding events than the universe just sort of happened.

Although the reason I didn't believe in God as a child was how did he get here, did he just appear out of nowhere, who made God etc etc. So basically I don't understand the universe or God Blush

Exactly. It seems no more illogical to me to believe that there is a God who is outside time and matter and made everything, than that there is some other mystical force or energy that was hanging about in literally nowhere before the big bang happened. Energy can't come from nowhere so the big bang must have come from something.

Also, please can the sciencey people stop the bullfighting? It makes threads like this really inaccessible to people like me who know very little about space and would like to learn.

Penguintears · 09/07/2022 00:48

Bunfighting! Although bullfighting scientists would be a spectacle.

Discovereads · 09/07/2022 01:13

AnaïsM · 09/07/2022 00:43

That’s an unevidenced proposal, made over a decade ago, and unsupported since.

You claimed that a white hole had been observed, are you actually going to show that having happened? This falls into the same category of speculation as the faster than light neutrinos caused by a faulty cable a few years back.

This is the problem when you speculate without even a basic education in the subject.

Are there any other major areas of science where you think that you know better than the experts in the field? Is relativity flawed, for example, or quantum mechanics all wrong?

GRB 060614 is thought by many physicists to have been an observed white hole. Not just the physicists that wrote that paper. Carlo Rovelli wrote a whole book on the subject. It’s not a speculation, which would mean something I made up. You just don’t agree with other physicists, so why not admit that? Instead of pretending I haven’t answered your question? First you said white holes are physically impossible and no white hole has ever been observed. I posted one that has. Then it was, oh that’s fringe but no paper has been published ever saying that was a white hole. Now I’ve posted the published paper and others referencing it saying it was likely a white hole (and there are others) plus the fact that white holes are not physically impossible and you’re now saying all those papers are not good enough. You keep moving the goal posts.

I knew better than you about the existence of satellite galaxies on this thread. Bet you’re regretting that little oops, what with saying you’re an expert and all.

Discovereads · 09/07/2022 01:20

Here is Carlo Rovelli and Francesca Vidottos book.
Covariant Loop Quantum Gravity
An Elementary Introduction to Quantum Gravity and Spinfoam Theory

www.cambridge.org/core/books/covariant-loop-quantum-gravity/2DF4474CBF7845C261FA78904270F226

it’s a fun read :)

Kharybdis · 09/07/2022 01:52

Can I ask, how many of you have the vote?

If it is more than 4 or 5, we’re fucked.

Luxa · 09/07/2022 02:21

It’s the other way round. Many more stars in the universe than bees on Earth.

Or are there more bees in the universe than stars on Earth?

Hawkins001 · 09/07/2022 05:18

Penguintears · 09/07/2022 00:44

Exactly. It seems no more illogical to me to believe that there is a God who is outside time and matter and made everything, than that there is some other mystical force or energy that was hanging about in literally nowhere before the big bang happened. Energy can't come from nowhere so the big bang must have come from something.

Also, please can the sciencey people stop the bullfighting? It makes threads like this really inaccessible to people like me who know very little about space and would like to learn.

I Understand your perspectives, but if the basic understanding tries to guide the basic understanding, then how will our knowledge improve without the scientists ? It's like asking Daniel Jackson, to not solve the Stargate, because he has more knowledge than a less intelligence scientist.

Penguintears · 09/07/2022 05:30

I'm not saying don't educate us, just finding the sniping very unpleasant and off-putting on what could be a very educational thread.

Bestshapeever · 09/07/2022 07:03

Agree the sniping has totally spoilt this otherwise very interesting chat.

Brahumbug · 09/07/2022 07:28

I do wish people would stop using epicentre when they just mean the centre of something! It's like people saying they have flu when they just have a cold!

CheeryTulip · 09/07/2022 07:51

MrsOwainGlyndŵr · 09/07/2022 00:03

Did you know that there are more bees on planet Earth than there are stars in the universe?

I learned that from More or Less, and it blew my mind.

I'd find this hard to believe because the universe is realllllly massive.

OP posts:
OhYouBadBadKitten · 09/07/2022 08:47

I'm sorry if my tone spoiled the conversation last night. Rather than aggravate people I'll step out of the conversation because I know I will probably get irritated again.

Daftasabroom · 09/07/2022 09:08

@MrsOwainGlyndŵr I definitely remember a similar More or Less re grains of sand and from memory it came out roughly equal.

Discovereads · 09/07/2022 09:24

Ok no more sniping. So Quantum Loop Gravity theory includes white holes not just as wormholes but within the same universe as a bounce effect where a black hole reaches a critical mass and then rewinds and becomes a white hole.

Here, Francesca Vidotto shares thoughts on it from London, Ontario, where she teaches physics at The University of Western Ontario:

”One fundamental property of the loop quantum gravity theory is that it allows for black holes to transition into white holes, which are the opposites of black holes, spitting out matter and energy, as opposed to consuming everything.

Oh, well, yes. The fundamental property is the fact that space-time is quantized, where you have fundamental grains of space-time. But this also has a counterpart, the fact that curvature is bounded. This means that the singularities that appear in general relativity are resolved in a quantum theory of gravity. Applied to the early universe, in cosmology there is a big bounce. The same thing happens in the center of a black hole.

Instead of having a singularity in the center, we just have a region that is very, very dense. When such a high density is reached, an effective quantum force appears like a repulsion that prevents the collapse of the black hole from continuing and triggers a new expanding phase that corresponds to a white hole. The idea that you can have a transition from a black hole to a white hole was something explored in the past, in the form of the Einstein-Rosen bridge [aka wormhole]. But the idea was that you would end up being in another region of space-time.

The insight that changes the picture is the possibility to have a transition to a white hole within our universe. Imagine you have some matter that starts collapsing, gets more and more dense, and in the process turns it into the very compact object that is a black hole. Then it reaches the maximal density and also a core of minimum size. At that point it starts to expand back, it’s as if you were seeing a movie in rewind, and everything starts expanding in the form of an explosion. If you can have things exploding back, this can also provide a possible window to search for quantum gravity, and we can look for traces of such an explosion.”
daily.jstor.org/francesca-vidotto-the-quantum-properties-of-space-time/

In this theory, they solve the problem of Big Bang Theory which violates the conservation of energy law by positing that the Big Bang was actually a large white hole. (I put that in layman’s terms in my first post).

Trixiefirecracker · 09/07/2022 09:28

@Discovereads when you say ‘law’ do you mean facts? 😳😂

Daftasabroom · 09/07/2022 09:37

@MrsOwainGlyndŵr More or Less Podcast

Rabbitholedigger · 09/07/2022 09:37

@Thack

That's me 🙋‍♀️ Centre of the universe right here!

Daftasabroom · 09/07/2022 09:39

One of my favourites The Weirdness of Water

Rabbitholedigger · 09/07/2022 09:41

I'm on the JWST page on Facebook. It's a great page with lots of interesting discussion!

I am way too excited for the 12th!!!

www.jwst.nasa.gov/content/webbLaunch/countdown.html

Discovereads · 09/07/2022 13:22

Trixiefirecracker · 09/07/2022 09:28

@Discovereads when you say ‘law’ do you mean facts? 😳😂

No, I mean physics laws as in the laws of thermodynamics- ie. law of conservation of energy or Newtons law of gravity or Boyles law, etc.

Now who’s laughing 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣?

Hawkins001 · 09/07/2022 13:49

Rabbitholedigger · 09/07/2022 09:41

I'm on the JWST page on Facebook. It's a great page with lots of interesting discussion!

I am way too excited for the 12th!!!

www.jwst.nasa.gov/content/webbLaunch/countdown.html

One reason that's annoying with Facebook is too many bots

Aria999 · 09/07/2022 13:55

DH researches this stuff in his job, I will ask him what he thinks about the white hole

AnaïsM · 09/07/2022 13:55

Discovereads · 09/07/2022 13:22

No, I mean physics laws as in the laws of thermodynamics- ie. law of conservation of energy or Newtons law of gravity or Boyles law, etc.

Now who’s laughing 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣?

Energy is not a conserved quantity, it is “mass energy” which is, as per the equation E2 = (pc)2 + M2c4

SausageAndCash · 09/07/2022 14:02

In answer to the OP, and based on the evidence before me, I would say in my kitchen, during the TeenWeekend era.