WW2 women not allowed to have bank accounts in their own name?

[CheeryTulip]

I just heard this as a side fact in a lecture about something else on Youtube. The speaker said his grandmother wasn't allowed a bank account in her own name -& how times have changed. Is this true? What happened if you were single? I'm now wondering about my own grannies...

The marriage bar in Ireland, in the civil service (including teachers, public servants etc) was only lifted in 1973, and banned in the private sector in 1977.

While widespread, it was not universally applied - my grandma, a German teacher, and extremely bright, born in 1914, had left teaching upon marriage. The nuns came looking for her in the 60s, as they had such a shortage of teachers. It was deemed fine for her to return!

Ireland was one of the last European countries to fully dispense with the ban. A PP is entirely correct in that our joining of the (then) EEC in 1973 was hugely important in terms of equality of access for women and others traditionally marginalised.

My mum worked for the local council, she remembers women who got married in the mid 60s being forced to leave.

Her and Dad couldn't get a mortgage because Dad was weekly paid tradesman rather than a salary.

I remember a teacher in school early 80s being back at work very soon after her baby, ie I really her going of, coming in to show of the baby and back very soon. She can't have been of 6 weeks.

I've an American friend who's just gone back to work after 7 weeks maternity. 😢we don't always appreciate how lucky we are in the UK.

I'm in my 40s and I can remember marital rape finally being outlawed

Same here, and more worryingly, having conversations at the time where people - men & women - were incredulous that rape in marriage could be a thing.

Honestly I remember being unsure myself. It was such a different time (especially in Ireland)

I was telling my kids the other day that I didn't know one gay person the entire time I was in university. Completely impossible but at the time - early to mid 1990s, in that part of Ireland at least, there was no such thing. There was a 'Gay & Lesbian' Society but it was regarded as the oddity of a small few. In my profession in fact (in third level) it's only quite recently that men in particular have been open about being gay. One colleague started to let people know he was gay (I had absolutely no idea) a few years ago, and also disclosed he had a partner of over 20 years. I assumed he lived alone; he never brought anyone to any event, he spoke about going to a wedding together in the last few years and it being an amazing experience. I was both moved not but also upset that we were well into the 21st century and he had not only kept it private; had managed to hide the fact he lived with anyone.

If you ever wonder how men would treat women if they thought they could get away with it you only have to look into the not too distant past. Or at the Taliban and other godforsaken places where women do not have human rights.

Agree so much with the PP - we need to tell these stories lest we forget. So many women were injured and traumatised by repeat pregnancy and childbirth, and many were cast into institutions at a time when mental illness was taboo.

I applied for a credit card with a £100 limit in 1985. The bank manager wanted to know if my husband was OK with me having the card.

www.theguardian.com/theguardian/from-the-archive-blog/2012/nov/15/el-vino-women-ban-fleet-street-1982

I was 18 in 1982 and had been going to the pus and clubs for 2 years previously, and although the boys often bought us drinks, we also went to the bar to buy drinks too!

@bigTillyMint That was true for you. What was also true was that if the pub decided to enforce the law they could legally refuse to serve you simply because you were a woman. They could have decided it was more profitable to accept your money, other pubs (see guardian article) refused to have women at the bar.

My sister got married 79 or 80 and their mortgage had to be only on her husbands income.

•What was also true was that if the pub decided to enforce the law•

Was it actually a law or just a custom? I do remember it happening occasionally in Scotland in late 70s, but not in England

My grandmother was widowed in her twenties, whilst pregnant with my father. She brought my father up whilst living in a rented house and looking after her parents until they died.She reared two pigs at a time and saved the money in cash to buy her rented property at £100 in the early 70's. It's astonishing what these women did in a male dominated world. Unfortunately she died in her early 50's and I think the stress of her life affected her significantly.

female history needs to be taught in depth to young girls .. What our forebears went through to get us to where we are today, and why we must now fight to keep hold of all what we have and continue to fight for that which we are still owed..

I don’t know where this mythology comes from. Yes, it became illegal to deny a woman various financial services in 1975, but that is not the same as saying that it was illegal for a woman to use them before that.

My grandmother had a bank account in 1924, when she inherited some money from her parents. She owned a house in her own name, as well as the farm she shared with her husband.

My mother had a bank account after she graduated from college in 1941, her salary as a teacher was paid into it then, and continued to be paid into it until she retired. My father had an individual bank account as well, they also had joint account for household expenses. They had a joint mortgage.

i had a savings account in my name when I was born! In 1950. My grandparents put money into it. I couldn’t run it myself until I was an adult ( in theory, in practice I did) . I had a bank account at college in 1970, my scholarship was paid into it . I took out a mortgage in 1973, I needed proof of earnings, that was all.

yes ,women who did not work often didn’t have much financial independence, and they didn’t have bank accounts in the sense that we do, but as someone has pointed out, not did most weekly paid men. It was a cash economy. However, many women had financial control of things like the Christmas savings club, they ran small catalogue business which involved collecting money and incurring credit.

It wasn’t not allowed! But a lot of banks did ask for a male guarantor (father or husband) because women were seen as a riskier bet, even if they had a good income of their own. If a women had capital it was different.

It became illegal to ask for a male guarantor just because a customer was female after the 75 sex discrimination act, but took a few years to die out.

It was very hard to get a mortgage as a single women, unless you had capital. This was true even if you were a teacher or civil servant. I think one of the women’s teaching unions got involved with campaigning for their members to be allowed mortgages in the mid 20th century.

If you look at the big sweep of history, women’s rights bob up and down. I think it’s correct to say that Saxon women were separate in laws, but in the early medieval period a married couple were lumped together as one, so women lost control of their money and property.

It’s important not to take it forgranted.

Mine too. She gave up work in 1959 (not sure if it was when she married or when she became pregnant, because both happened the same year.

She went back to teaching in 1970 (albeit part-time) when my youngest sibling started school.

I bought a flat as a single woman in 1984 no problem getting a mortgage at all. Had 2 other female friends in the same block of flats who also bought on their own.

I went to university in 1981 & was certainly buying my own drinks in bars then (& before as a female under age drinker)!

It's not that long since women working for BT & the Civil Service had to leave when they got married & weren't able to have a pension, they got paid of with a marriage gratuity & had to leave. When my mum & dad got married banks only had a certain budget for mortgages & once the years budget was used up you couldn't get a mortgage.

A married woman didn't have her own tax records until Independent Taxation was introduced in 1988, her tax records were added to her husband's like he had a second job, women had no way of not telling their husband what they earned.

Sorry Independent Taxation was brought in in 1990

It's not that long since women working for BT & the Civil Service had to leave when they got married

How long though? BT has only been around since 1984.

Denis Thatcher was responsible for Margaret Thatcher's tax return whilst she was Prime Minister.

How long though?

Answered my own question… The Civil Service and Post Office marriage bar was removed in 1946.

Yes, it's true.

And single women needed their father to vouch for them if they wished to open a bank account.

Married women ceased to have a legal life of their own after marriage. Although they could legally open a bank accoubt in their own name and without having to have a male relative or husband co-sign or vouch for them, many felt immense pressure not to take advantage of their rights for fear of offending their husbands and upsetting a long established cultural applecart. Rape within marriage was only criminalized in the 1990s. After marriage your body no longer belonged to you alone until that time.

I knew a woman who worked or a major building society in the 70s and yet couldn't get a mortgage with them.