Die with zero

[diian]

An interesting viewpoint on how to live to live and not live to save.

I have always been a saver and then heard about a book called 'Die with Zero' by Bill Perkins. Should I have spent my 20s and 30s endlessly saving to pay off my mortgage at 39 years old and not enjoying life?

The book talks about dying with £10K is 5 months of working you never got to enjoy, like not taking 5 holidays or having 50 lovely meals out with friends.

It makes me think of my Grandad, he spent his life saving and saving for his retirement adventures but by the time he retired, he had injured his back and had to walk with a walking stick. He never got his adventures and I wish he had done them when he was younger. He ended up with a big share portfolio that passed to my dad, he did nothing with it and died 8 years after my grandad and these shares have now passed to me. How many more generations of the family are these bits of paper going to be passed down to...?

My grandad is the reason I love travel and love seeing my kids travel. Bill Perkins talks about travel in your 20s gives you 50 years of memories whereas travel in your 70s gives you possibly 5-10 years of memories.

I need to have a gap year now I am in my 50s and work towards dying with zero and giving the shares to my kids in their 20s.

Am i having a mid-life crisis or mid-life re-evaluation?

I quite like the sound of this philosophy!

“You can’t take it with you”

such a cliche, but so true. Hence, I feel justified in booking my 4th holiday this year.

I like this philosophy! Go for it OP, have your adventures

I suppose there's a balance to be struck (some security is probably a helpful thing), however it sounds as though you're having a relatively sensible mid-life re-evaluation... one tends to regret the things one doesn't do. You only live once!

I love this idea.

DH and I are probably going to inherit decent sums of money in the future. We’ve done pretty well for ourselves and any inheritance now won’t now make a huge difference to our lives.

Whereas if our parents had given us some money towards a house deposit years ago when we were buying our first home, or treated us to a
family holiday during some of our toughest times, that would have made a massive difference to us at the time.

Both our fathers are still working, and I can see both of them retiring due to ill health in the next few years, when unfortunately they won’t be able to really enjoy their retirement. What a waste!

We have already told DS we are paying for his university so he leaves with no debt, and giving him a house deposit when he’s ready to buy a house. We would love to take him and his partner/children (if he has them) on a family holiday every few years, and help him out if and when needed, but we intend to spend most of our money and leave little if any inheritance apart from our house (if it hasn’t been sold for our care home fees!).

The Scots say “There’s nae pockets in a shroud” - I suppose the equivalent of “You can’t take it with you” but I don’t totally agree that you should therefore spend the lot.
Obviously people will vary in how much disposable income they are likely to have available post retirement, but one has responsibilities to others - and particularly one’s children - that cannot be shrugged off.
My two DDs live and work in possibly the most expensive city in Scotland, and it took my entire pension lump sum to get them each onto the property ladder. If I had squandered that on world travel instead, they’d be paying extortionate rents for tatty flats, with no prospect of owning their own homes.
Similarly, I keep money invested in case I need care home fees at some future point, and a rainy day fund for any major house repairs. It’s only the residue after all those considerations, that I regard as available to have fun with.

We're in our 50's comfortably off, dh has a good pension but mine isn't so great and it worries me that if we spend everything now, rinse through our savings, what happens if we have very little left for our retirement? Will we be able to afford to eat, heat the house, nursing home?

I appreciate things could end tomorrow so for me it's getting a balance I guess (off on holiday no2 next week) and I'm totally risk averse!

As long as you have security in a place to live it sounds like a good idea. I'd be tempted to pass any inheritance onto my kids bypassing me. My mum.has a small fortune stashed away but wont pay for any help and seems to live off instant mash. I'm not sure what exactly she is saving for?

I’m a saver.
Big saver.
BUT once a year we do a wild thing.
This year we are blowing a fortune on a holiday to Florida.
This is probably the 3rd or 4th holiday we have just gone for!
We bought a bloody lovely caravan one year and had an absolute blast for years in that beut.
Could have paid off the mortgage but we want life instead.
I still save 9 months of the year so we can do our wild things!

i have found my people! This is my thought in life and money, especially if you have no one in your life who might need that money - I’m thinking disabled children for instance.
My PIL dies with nearly 3/4 million between them in the bank. Yet lived as paupers, unable to live and enjoy their home. It angered me a lot, as they could have really enjoyed their home and lives so much if they had just spent even a fraction of it. (The joy on my mil face when I bought her a one cup machine she could actually use instead of burning herself on a kettle !)Their children couldn’t wait to get their hands on the money, yet non of them ‘needed’ it. Whilst I will be likely to leave ‘bricks and mortar’ money, I intend to leave as little as possible in hard money. Enjoy it certainly, as you’ve earnt it!!

I'm 60 and been fortunate to pay off the mortgage a few years ago, but I compromise with paying into pension so I'll hopefully be comfortable, but still go on holidays now, possibly more than I'll be able to afford when I'm retired, but I'm already aware of not being as mobile as I used to be and want to enjoy life while I can.

I don't know, I think alot of people haven't had the misfortune of a clusterfuck of bad luck which a good financial position can cushion. I'm not talking about being scrooge mcduck, but having a decent cushion does abate stress, particularly if you have a fixed income source without capacity to earn more.

So I think it speaks more to a position of privilege, good health, good relationships and good fortune rather than any moral philosophy.

Not exactly 'die with zero' though is it if you own a property and the mortgage is paid off?

@stayingpositiveifpossible true, but people need somewhere to live, and not everyone will live in rented accommodation or a care home, or worse - living on the streets. Even living in a paid for caravan or boat, won’t be dying with zero.
I think the aim is to enjoy as much of your own money as you can while you can, rather than living like Scrooge with thousands in the bank.

live and live
As my parents have found out worked all there life .Claimed absolute nothing. At one point my dad had 3 jobs and my mum had a couple of part time jobs. Lived a very modest life just had basics ploughed all there money into savings .
Fast forward to retirement had to pay for care but if they would of blown there money years ago it would of been free. So zero benefit to them no better off than the person who never worked a day in there life.
My mum now gets a widows pension and a very small private pension .If she didn't have that she'd get pension credits so should of enjoyed her money years ago .
So by the time I get to retirement I intend to keep just enough for a small cushion to be comfortable .
Moral of the story work , contribute and save all your life get fuck all
contribute nothing get everything .
enjoy what you have now .

Good idea op I intend to follow your lead.
I have a relative who lives in a tatty run down house, wears t shirts they were given at work (they retired 21 years ago) and has just mashed potatoes for lunch so they don’t go to waste.
It turns out they have £700k in savings plus their house! Despite the fact that their estate will have to pay inheritance tax they still refuse to spend any money or give it away.
Madness!

Yes, you've got a point definitely.

I often wonder about this - I actually feel quite rich now - compared to how things were previously in my life because I have a safety buffer and small savings.

I am late fifties, live in social housing (which is not great) but I''m hoping to make a change there. Even if I had to money to do so right now I'm not sure it would make sense to buy a property at my age.

I really like the idea of people who have bought double decker buses to do up and lived in - so that they can travel around. Maybe it is on my bucket list.

I did wonder @ZaraSizeMedium about paying for our children's university especially as fees probably will be 12%. However, at £27k tuition plus £30K living expenses times 2 children, the £120k would probably be best as two house deposits.

DD is hoping for another gap year after uni. I will definitely encourage it. You are a long time working.

My earning power in my 50s is a lot higher than in my 20s. I do work 5.5 days a week, so maybe part-time is the answer... but I love job!

I read the title and thought hmm impossible to judge correctly. Both my grandmothers lived into their 90s, one grandfather to his 80s. One grandfather early 60s. Both of my parents died early 70s.

It's die with zero middle class version!
Would love to do all these things but paying the bills leaves me in deficit every month. My parents had nothing and have nothing to leave me but their love

Not as easy as it might have been in the past as people coming up to retirement now have more DC pensions. Annuity rates are so poor that people leave their funds invested and drawdown income. Who knows how long they’re going to live?

I had some great holidays in my 20s (25 years ago) and I can barely remember them now. I think you have your rose tinted glasses on for that one

No way. I have no kids but I'd love to leave something for my favourite charities in my will. Would make me much happier than any number of holidays. And I certainly don't want to see it go to a carehome for looking after me.

Having said that, I did one MAJOR one-in-a-lifetime holiday that I will remember forever.

I think this approach will be much more common in the next generation of retirees.

My parents and ILs (70s/80s) have live very frugal lives, being post war kids and having little probably. This has extended into their retirements and they all spend less than their income and really struggle with any extravagances, which I encourage!

I have been a saver all my life and am retiring next year. I plan to stop saving and spend all my annual income and some of my savings each year. I don’t know how well I will manage it but I certainly intend to try!

@ChinBristles Could you not give some to a charity now? Then you might enjoy seeing what good they do with it.

My MIL started giving money to each of her six grandchildren each year so she could enjoy seeing how they spent it. One bought a French horn and will probably play it for years. MIL has been to numerous concerts seeing them play it. Another bought their first car with the money. MIL has taken a lot of joy seeing the 'inheritence' spent in her lifetime. I doubt she will die with zero but the amount in the bank will be a good few thousand less.