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When is the NHS going to strike?

25 replies

TiredNHS · 27/06/2022 15:30

NHS unions have been rejecting government pay offers for a while now. Staff retention is very low- a lot of good colleagues who know their worth have left the NHS to other jobs, mostly relating to healthcare or where they are appreciated by their communication skills. Some trusts in England are offering a "welcome Package" of 1-2k to attract staff. Younger people i work with, compare themselves with their friends and how they earn more money than them after a few years on a role.

People say that the main problem with NHS retention is stress, not pay. However, It would be naive to say that a higher pay does not attract and motivates workers to stay. Look at high stress jobs like those in the financial world, some areas of law and IT. They are really stressful with pressing deadlines and unsociable hours. But they can still recruit people probably because their attractive pay packages attracts them. You will say that the law of offer and demand does not apply to the NHS as it is government-funded. Wont this further undermine the NHS until they (politicians) have no other option but to bring in private healthcare? Will you then be happy to pay USA prices? Stop burying your head on the sand, we need to find a solution or the NHS won't survive.

Many staff get burn out with the constant rota changes, missing breaks and working extra hours at the end of the shift. Then they discover that it is actually not that easy to get a band 6-7 job. Later it comes the realisation that if you cannot keep up with this pace of work in your 30s, what is going to happen in your late 60s?!
As a sector with a high proportion of staff that is female, foreign and very caring/compassionate (as opposed to competitive), makes us very adverse to strikes. I argue however that a strike might be the only thing that saves the NHS (which is barely surviving as it is) from collapse.

We live in an era where rich people and politicians have very high expectations regarding their salaries, pay packages and the dividends they get for doing their jobs or sometimes next to nothing. They also expect normal people to keep their heads down because it is very disappointing that we dare to ask for a fraction of what they get/expect. Why is it ok to lose billions in a failed T&T project/ PPE/ parties/decoration/treehouse, etc but it is not ok to invest it in paying NHS staff enough so they dont have to use food banks? This would translate in more expending by people and improved economy. Instead, the rich keep their unrealistic pay and "lump sums" stashed away, to benefit a few.

What is wrong with society that supports this level of hypocrisy?

Summary: if you pay peanuts and you dont get enough monkeys, why dont you change your approach and pay more before the NHS falls on its knees?

OP posts:
shivawn · 27/06/2022 15:37

I live in Ireland not the UK but we had a nurses strike a few years ago after which pay improved considerably. We still have problems with staff shortages, burnout, missed breaks etc like you say but it does make a difference to be earning a good wage in line with our qualifications and responsibility. I'm always horrified to see what NHS nurses get paid.

Justcallmebebes · 27/06/2022 16:20

The state of the NHS in my area, not sure anyone would notice to be honest

beeswain · 27/06/2022 17:50

Then they discover that it is actually not that easy to get a band 6-7 job.

This is interesting, I can't recruit Band 6 nurses for love nor money in my area (South East). Have had rolling adverts out for months. Band 7 is not much better. There just don't seem to be staff out there willing or able to take on some of the posts we have vacant. It's dire. And don't get me started on all the European nurses that went home after Brexit .

So yes, the NHS is on its knees. It makes me sad - I am 60 and have given 40 years service and worked with some of the most amazing people. But I'm exhausted and so are colleagues 30 years my junior.

RavenousBugblatter · 27/06/2022 17:53

I think a strike will be called this year, I'll be striking for the first time.

DontKeepTheFaith · 27/06/2022 17:59

Pay and bandings are crap. I made a big step responsibility and stress wise from band 6 to 7 with a pathetically tiny pay increase and loss of enhancements. I’d be better off doing a band 6 post! The NHS relies on peoples compassion and dedication to their job but we are all burning out. I never get a break on shift and give everything I have to my ward but I know it’s not sustainable. If I don’t have a breakdown before, I have a 5 year plan to get out and do bank work.

Band 6 is easier in my Trust these days as a way to recruit and retain staff. Doesn’t work though as everyone is offering the same.

I don’t know what the answer is, the NHS is very different from when I qualified more than 20 years ago. So many more demands and no more staff.

Anoooshka · 27/06/2022 18:02

Aren't you allowed to recruit nurses from overseas? I thought that was the whole point of Brexit, that we could recruit from countries that are not in the EU? Not trying to start an argument, just trying to understand what is going on.

milkysmum · 27/06/2022 18:04

I've previously worked as a band 7 nurse, I won't do it again for the money let me tell you! I'm now working at a band 6 in the community. If I was to take a band 7 the difference in money is pretty much pennies. No chance.

RavenousBugblatter · 27/06/2022 18:10

But the difference between the bottom of Band 6 and the bottom of Band 7 isn't pennies (nor the top of Band 6 and the top of Band 7).

I appreciate that the difference between the top of Band 6 and the bottom of Band 7 probably isn't that much.

Anyway, that's not really what the thread is about.

TiredNHS · 27/06/2022 18:31

Justcallmebebes · 27/06/2022 16:20

The state of the NHS in my area, not sure anyone would notice to be honest

Exactly, patient care wont suffer much more than it is now. Its like a small sacrifice for a long term gain. keep emergency and acute non scheduled care going of course,

OP posts:
IronChef · 27/06/2022 18:34

Call me paranoid, but perhaps NHS staff striking would feed right into our greedy govt's plans? I fear they are running the whole NHS into the ground deliberately to get public opinion on the side of 'reliable' private healthcare. So what would a strike achieve in real terms? Would the people in charge even care? Would the majority of the public support it given some of the remarks about the rail strikers? Would an NHS strike play into the tories/the media's hands? Headlines like 'Look at these greedy nurses demanding pay rises when you haven't even been able to get an appt for 2 years' leading eventually to dismantling the NHS totally because 'it's what the public wants'...

Not an NHS worker btw so I appreciate this might be conspiracy theory bollocks, but I am very worried about what the Tories are doing to this county in general and do wonder where this awful govt is going with healthcare plans now.

IfIhearmumagaintoday · 27/06/2022 18:36

shivawn · 27/06/2022 15:37

I live in Ireland not the UK but we had a nurses strike a few years ago after which pay improved considerably. We still have problems with staff shortages, burnout, missed breaks etc like you say but it does make a difference to be earning a good wage in line with our qualifications and responsibility. I'm always horrified to see what NHS nurses get paid.

Is there a big difference? Your living costs are totally different and things like CB are a lot higher too so perhaps it balances out?

MoreHairyThanScary · 27/06/2022 18:37

Had a similar conversation with a colleague, I feel we can not afford to not strike, the government takes no heed without action... the difficulty is everyone is so burnt out how do you motivate.

I feel patient care is just going to deteriorate dune and further unless we can start to attract people into the profession paying a wage commensurate with the level of skill and responsibility ( I'm thinking Patti

MoreHairyThanScary · 27/06/2022 18:38

Posted too soon ...

Particularly in the community where there are huge levels of lone working and autonomous decision making which is just not recognised!

TiredNHS · 27/06/2022 18:38

Anoooshka · 27/06/2022 18:02

Aren't you allowed to recruit nurses from overseas? I thought that was the whole point of Brexit, that we could recruit from countries that are not in the EU? Not trying to start an argument, just trying to understand what is going on.

We were recruiting nurses from all over the world before brexit. We have a lot of excellent Asian, African and Indian nurses, many of them have been been here for +30 years. It cost money, admin and a lot of time to process a visa for these people. Before brexit European people come start work as soon as they got registered with their professional body. Cheap and fast process for the nhs. Now, its more complex so Europeans prefer to move to other European countries or countries that pay a LOT of money (UEA- Dubai).
New Zealand, Australia and Canada are also recruiting all the time. Many uk professionals go there as the pay is insane. I suppose international staff rather prefer to go there if they can get a visa.

OP posts:
sleepyhoglet · 27/06/2022 18:39

shivawn · 27/06/2022 15:37

I live in Ireland not the UK but we had a nurses strike a few years ago after which pay improved considerably. We still have problems with staff shortages, burnout, missed breaks etc like you say but it does make a difference to be earning a good wage in line with our qualifications and responsibility. I'm always horrified to see what NHS nurses get paid.

What do they get paid? My DH is a teacher and is on 38k for which he is in school 7.30am-6.30pm most days and then obviously residential and parents evenings etc. My aunt who is a midwife was saying if she gets called in as she is on call one night this week she will be paid £40 an hour! At least with nursing etc you seem to get paid overtime and for the hours you work

Whereismumhiding4 · 27/06/2022 18:45

I'm
Expecting a strike forMHS nurses doctors and adult care social workers and it'll be managed carefully so not to interrupt essential care

Do people realise how much extra unpaid overtime we've all being doing for nearly 2 1/2 years now ? and they give us a tiny pay offer nowhere near inline with inflation and cost of living??
It has almost broken many of our workers- all essential staff. We need something so more colleagues don't quit ...

Whereismumhiding4 · 27/06/2022 18:46

Sorry for nhs not mhs

worriedaboutmoney2022 · 27/06/2022 18:46

Our trust, along with others throughout the UK down graded a lot of the secretaries and administrators from band 4 to a band 3 and band 3 is barely above minimum wage!! They then introduced some band 4 jobs above these but below managers to do all the rubbish jobs the managers don't want and alot of people left after the 2 years when people's salaries were protected.

They also outsourced catering, cleaning, porters, mailrooms, pharmacy staff, the payroll team - the list goes on

Then you get emails from NHS explaining if staff are struggling to contact then chaplaincy teams at various sites for a food bank referral literally weeks after getting emails asking for donation from the same management for the Ukraine!! Where's the logic in that?

There's a lot of vacancies - I think the selling points are the annual leave provision, sick pay, maternity pay and also the biggest one, pensions but there are fewer applicants now.

Whereismumhiding4 · 27/06/2022 18:47

What do they get paid? My DH is a teacher and is on 38k for which he is in school 7.30am-6.30pm most days
I wish we got paid that and similar time not directly doing patient or case work. I pull in (as a part time worker) far more than 55 hours a week

Whereismumhiding4 · 27/06/2022 18:50

For far less money

TiredNHS · 27/06/2022 18:50

IronChef · 27/06/2022 18:34

Call me paranoid, but perhaps NHS staff striking would feed right into our greedy govt's plans? I fear they are running the whole NHS into the ground deliberately to get public opinion on the side of 'reliable' private healthcare. So what would a strike achieve in real terms? Would the people in charge even care? Would the majority of the public support it given some of the remarks about the rail strikers? Would an NHS strike play into the tories/the media's hands? Headlines like 'Look at these greedy nurses demanding pay rises when you haven't even been able to get an appt for 2 years' leading eventually to dismantling the NHS totally because 'it's what the public wants'...

Not an NHS worker btw so I appreciate this might be conspiracy theory bollocks, but I am very worried about what the Tories are doing to this county in general and do wonder where this awful govt is going with healthcare plans now.

I agree with you in part. I am already sick of hearing people saying that we haven’t worked in 2 years, we got money from pharma and also mentioning the infamous tik tok videos. I’m on Twitter so I see comments like this on a daily basis, plus the daily mail articles damning staff every second day. We feel depreciated already from people that earn x5 times our salary and their cheerleaders who don’t know any better. Striking and expressing our pov on tv will hopefully give people our side of the story (can we have a Michael Lynch, please?). Hard die right wingers will never be on our side or recognise BJ is wrong, so we have nothing to lose, we can only to make our struggles and issues with patient safety known

OP posts:
DontKeepTheFaith · 27/06/2022 19:00

RavenousBugblatter · 27/06/2022 18:10

But the difference between the bottom of Band 6 and the bottom of Band 7 isn't pennies (nor the top of Band 6 and the top of Band 7).

I appreciate that the difference between the top of Band 6 and the bottom of Band 7 probably isn't that much.

Anyway, that's not really what the thread is about.

You don’t generally go from bottom band 6 to 7 though!

I went from top band 6 to band 7, earn £1000 a year more with no enhancements so no increase in take home pay and it will be 3 years before I get my increment. There is no incentive in that to take on a really shit job. They need experienced nurses in Ward Manager posts but it’s only really worth doing if you are much less experienced and nearer the bottom of band 6. It’s a daft system.

The ludicrous pay structure is one of the reasons the NHS recruitment is in crisis.

fairgame84 · 27/06/2022 19:03

I would never strike. I work on nicu and going on strike and leaving it unsafely staffed could be the difference between life and death. Most of my colleagues feel the same.

MintJulia · 27/06/2022 19:32

God, I hope not. I'm 9 months into breast cancer recovery and I'd rather give them my whole 3% rise than feel that they weren't there. 🙁

cricketwidoww · 29/06/2022 07:26

Is the rcn balloting for strike? I missed 2 calls this week from them

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