Free Birthing

[Charlavail]

No more babies for me so not something I will ever experience. I wouldn't have minded a home birth with DS2 but PPROM meant I had to be induced. I have just been reading about it on Instagram and wondered if anyone had any experience of it.

Yes, but as I said, I don't think that's what freebirthers mean by non-medicalised birth. I don't know if this is a real misunderstanding or you're being obtuse.

Nobody is going to object to treatment in the case of emergency. That's not what they are objecting to. In fact I would imagine most people who consider freebirth in general would have a preference for everything being hands off unless there is a sign of emergency. Reactive care only.

There are of course emergencies that happen very fast without any warning - that's the case in hospital births too and sometimes proximity to the emergency equipment doesn't help (although would certainly give you a better chance). It's my understanding that someone who wants to freebirth takes these risks into account.

Where the divide lies is I suppose that in modern times we also have technology that enables us to see emergencies before they become obvious. Most people want access to that, but freebirthers don't want that kind of just-in-case proactive care, they only want reactive care - and I'd imagine as a medical professional it must be very difficult to treat someone who wants to avoid it, which is why it's hard to argue against this kind of thing if you do want a hands off birth with medical professionals present, hence (a minority of) women prioritise the hands off part rather than the emergency help part.

Bertie -

im just pointing out that many fewer women would ‘trust their bodies’ if they knew emergency medical care wouldn’t turn up.
i don’t think the majority of ‘free birthers’ truly believe that ‘nature always knows best’, I think they say it because they know they have the luxury of falling back on emergency medical care should it go pear shaped
I think a lot of it is more about buying into a certain lifestyle or ‘style’ of mothering

Are you in the UK?
You absolutely can still have a homebirth even if you’ve got a planned section or induction date! You can book a home birth and a hospital birth. Who has said you can’t?

@ChickpeaPie UK, it must vary by trust then with different computer systems because you definitely can't here. Obviously you can go to hospital at anypoint, and you can have whatever is medically necessary in an emergency. But you can't book in to the hospital and a homebirth any more than you can book into two hospitals, I presume because it feeds into cost allocation and staffing levels and performance calculations etc. And you can't assign a section to a homebirth because it's obviously not available there.
I'm glad others have that option though.

@Dinoteeth I've had multiple bad experiances with drs and drugs, so I'd rather take my chances with surgery that I have no experiance of. They're both available and statistically safe, so it's just personal preference.

I don't understand though why seeking emergency care would be incongruent with the idea of freebirth?

I've never met anyone who was interested in hands off birth who had a magical belief that everything will be fine 100% of the time in all cases. That is a straw man argument, made to make freebirthers etc look crazy (and I know I said it was "nuts" before - what I meant is that for me the risk/benefit balance doesn't make sense.)

They're just saying if everything is going fine, leave me alone. (Unwritten implication: As soon as it's not, don't) They aren't Jehovah's Witnesses etc saying it's God's will if they die (now I write that, I realise that some might well be!) of course it exists within the backup of a health system with emergency care etc. That's the context women are making decisions in.

Bertie, I don’t think you’ve been on many free birthing groups lately. The general belief is that nature is king, medicine is evil, if something goes wrong and the baby dies then that’s nature’s way of saying it wasn’t meant to be (a bit like the JH you mention), and people who suggest medical help if any kind are warned or even kicked out of the group.

on a side note they would never know if it was ‘going fine’ even if it seemed to be. They don’t monitor the baby in any way, they could be in huge distress and they wouldn’t have the faintest inkling.

you view is a little naive if I’m honest. If you want direction to pages which support what I said above then let me know.

Yes, and even then, birth attendant is one of the oldest human professions and there's evidence in ancient cultures of women having utilised the closest things available to skilled assistance. What that often looked like was experienced women who had attended lots of deliveries previously. Informal midwifery, I suppose.

And then there were midwives in Ancient Greece and Rome. Obviously nothing like what we have today, but the point is, humans worked out fairly early on that it was a good thing for women giving birth to have access to whatever looked most like skilled birth attendants in their culture.

There’s no comparison to what animals do ‘ in nature’. We are bipeds, we have narrower pelvises than animals and babies with bigger heads. We deviated from ‘natural’ birthing norms many thousands of years ago. It’s called the obstetrical dilemma, it’s quite interesting
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obstetrical_dilemma

Where i am (Leeds), spontaneous maternal request sections are 100% a thing. Just saying as it might be worth asking the question.

Here, they let you have a section on demand, you can literally arrive at the hospital in labour, say you want a section and provided you're not too far along you can have one. You can also plan one in advance. You can also say you want one, arrive at the hospital and change your mind and just go home again and wait to deliver naturally. You can change your mind again and go back and have one if you want! The maternity care here is brilliant and so flexible.

Of course freebirth groups are extreme if they kick out anyone who isnt. And it doesn't cover the group who go down the lying about it being an accident route or really any one more sensible.

There are also resources to back up berties view, you get what you look for. It's harder to get practical medical advice, but it doesn't mean women aren't looking.

But there are no stats on this either way so it's impossible to determine how many fall into what category.

Also a lot of the extremists are from the states, where midwives and homebirths are often illegal, and they can't afford emergency care. It's a different choice when it's between 'wave all rights over your body once you're pregnant' or 'have no interaction with medical care at all' and no in between, frankly they're both extreme and unpalatable so I won't judge. It's almost like giving women choice results in better outcomes.

Yes, I was going to say a lot of them are from the USA where they don't have midwife led units, so it's a choice between 'free birth' and being strapped to a bed, pumped with drugs, episiotomy without consent etc etc.

Home birth, I can understand why women consider it, as I considered myself briefly for DC2. As it happened, I was in hospital, low risk , healthy pregnancy, normal birth with DC1. With DC2, totally uncomplicated natural delivery, but baby stopped breathing after birth and I had a haemorrhage .

The midwife pushed a buzzer and two teams of doctors were there in seconds to attend to each of us. I thank God that we were not at home waiting for an ambulance and a transfer to hospital and one midwife trying to stop both of us dying. I dread to think what damage could have occurred in that time. A normal birth can turn into a life and death emergency in seconds.

Thanks to the amazing medical team, we are both fine.

Quite, Ochre!

I disagree. I have a rare medical condition, very few women with it have a VB and it’s usually c section. I had a VB and wanted to find a group with similar experience for next time. However the group I found are more ‘natural’ birthing types than simply VB.

Quite a few are from the States, they seem to have much better hospital experiences than we do. Very few state they want a free or risky homebirth due to a poor previous experience, it mainly seems to be about ‘wanting to do it naturally’ and their doctors not supporting that as it’s a very risky decision (think homebirth after 4 c-sections and with a number of complications etc). Now, I totally understand wanting to experience those things, but there seems to be a tipping point in such groups whereby the desires for the mother’s ‘experience’ surpass the safety of the baby.

there was also a mum who deliberately free birthed a 24 weeker which I found beyond negligent. Everyone on the page loved it tho.

I was in hospital but midwife choose not to do any internal exams. It was my second and she just said that I was getting on well and carry on. Personally I would not want to have been anywhere else than the hospital. But I really appreciated her and that approach.

I was supposed to have a home birth with as little intervention as possible. Hospitals and procedures trigger my ptsd. My midwife was extremely understanding.
I ended up being taken to hospital as an emergency as my baby was both massive and stuck. I was, however, treated and spoken to as being the one in control, and I really appreciated that.
If I had free birthed both me and my baby would be dead.
Trust is needed in medical staff, it’s fine to say you don’t like being messed with, but sometimes it is absolutely necessary.

This is the key to it all, I think.

Romantic ideas about trusting Mother Nature as we're designed to be able to do it naturally.

When the reality is that mothers and babies died regularly. And not so long ago, either.

People forget what modern medicine has done to save so many lives.

They also forget that Mother Nature isn't bothered about ensuring every woman and baby survives the birth, only that enough do to perpetuate the species...

I had an accidental freebirth due to very fast labour and I would definitely choose to freebirth if I could be guaranteed a safe and uncomplicated birth beforehand. Not having anyone poke and prod me, giving me a vaginal exam and bursting my waters without my consent, tell me when to push, how to position myself, not to scream etc. etc. was bliss. I wasn't scared at all, there was no time to think and my baby was pink and breathing well within seconds after the birth.
I would still try to get to hospital on time for my next baby because I wouldn't want to risk anything (I wouldn't even try a homebirth because some complications, like shoulder dystocia, aren't predictable and can happen to low risk women as well) , but the thought of a labour ward makes me feel sick.

I loved my BBA too. I was so much more comfortable at home and the only stressful bit was when I had been told I was in 'early labour' and it turned out to actually be advanced labour/transition. The care from the homebirth team was amazing antenatally and when they did arrive (10 mins after birth).
My hospital birth was awful in comparison. I mean, I left with healthy babies, but I was traumatised physically from being forced to labour on my back against my will and psychologically battered from having my autonomy removed and my consent breached. I hated it and still feel angry about it now three months later.

What happened @Dinneronmybfpillow did you have twins? I also had to Labour on my back. I wish I had had somebody to help move me, I’m thinking of a doula for next time.

@Wouldloveanother I had it all over my birth plan that I was refusing an epidural to prioritise freedom of moment, that it was really important to me etc etc. They broke my waters and left me to it and told me to call the bell when things had ramped up. I went as long as I could before DH got nervous (he who had to 'catch' last time and was understandably keen not to this time!) and as soon as the midwife came in she determined I was in active labour and made me lay reclined on the bed. I wish I had been able to advocate for myself and tell her to bog off but I felt so powerless in that environment. It was horrible. I felt so vulnerable and degraded, I was just a thing that had stuff done TO her. Grim.

Sorry to anyone reading this anticipating a hospital birth who is nervous! I know it's not helpful. Please stick up for yourself and hold them to account when they breach your consent (I had a few incidences of this and regret not calling them out on it at the time).