I don't want to do this anymore

[DueyCheatemAndHow]

I feel so utterly trapped.

Son is 3.5. He has always been high maintenance - needed lots of input, not happy alone, used to do about 8 dirty nappies a day. He is relentlessly exhausting. Meltdowns at the slightest thing. Talks non stop - and I really do mean that. Demands input with everything - doesn't even like me on my phone when he is watching TV. I'm impatient with him - I feel like I spend 90% of my time repeating instructions. Even to the point of being like 'ok spit'. Right let's keep going' with toothbrushing.

It's compounded by very early waking - I mean 4am sometimes. About 6 weeks ago I trialled later bedtimes and he did about a week of waking at 6-6.30am. He was so so much better. Much more even. A delight to be around.

But things are slipping again. 5.30 d'art every day. Then he is knackered. Then he naps at lunch and we push bedtime back til 8 and then 5.30 it all starts again.

I don't want to do this anymore. I feel like a ghost.

3.5- drop the nap, but have a calm day, tv lots of chilling- and don’t get in a car/ buggy post 3pm for a few days whilst he adjusts.

attends nursery to give you a break?

fyi no kid likes their parent on the phone and love attention. Do you hold play dates?

I've tried to drop the nap. But the only way he will chill is with the TV and then he falls asleep.

A 3.5 year old shouldn't be napping, this is probably why he's up at 4am.
Drop it completely. Tire him out, he'll more tired in the late afternoons/evenings then for you and probably more relaxed. My youngest was the same, but soon as we dropped that nap he started getting tired by 4pm and was happy to just sit and watch a movie while I cooked dinner or whatever.

You’re going to have to have a v calm day and early bed- colouring, films, snacks he likes- it’s an adjustment.
first bedtime might be 6pm he’s so tired, then 6.15pm then 6.30pm- then his wake up gets a little later. May always be an early riser but less severe. Also get a gro clock, had a rule my child couldn’t get up until the gro clock changed colour, sometimes she nodded off back to sleep waiting.

I just feel so dispirited because I've tried all this.

He unplugs the groclock.

We've been out all day, he's been on the go the whole day. We left the house at 9.30am, he fell asleep in the car (only for 5 mins) and came home at 5.30 where he fell asleep again. He just always seems desperate for sleep.

Unplugging the groclock is plain naughty and he deserves a telling off.

Try to make sure he doesn't sleep during the day - factor in activities until tea time, then do bath and bedtime routine for about 7.00 and in bed by 7.15. Either lights out completely or a very dim night light.

OK, I'll try again with the groclock

3.5 is quite old to be still napping. Have you spoken to your health visitor or GP?

It might be worth asking about thyroid issues. I have hypothyroidism and it can make you exhausted. Not sure how common it is in children mind.

Yes they just said that's his rhythm.

Reward chart for every morning he leaves the gro clock alone- also set for a reasonable time for him c. 6am- can move it forward slowly.
also if he unplugs it keep returning him to his bedroom- like sleep training for the morning.

You've probably tried all of these, but writing them down just incase:

Is his room totally dark? Blackout blinds? The slightest sunlight can wake some children.

Perhaps in process of dropping nap? Seems he needs the nap but then it wrecks bedtime? PPs have said 3.5yos don't need afternoon nap, but I work with just turned 4yos who are exhausted by a full day without a nap. I was told sleep breeds sleep and that principle always worked for me. Overtiredness at bedtime is a disaster, so consider that he still needs a nap? You know your child best, don't be swayed by advice from outside.

Extend the bedtime routine to make a decent wind down time? I wouldn't use tv to wind a pre-schooler down, that's a lot of stimulation for a little one. Bath, reading, music, audiobook, milk etc

Plenty of sunlight and fresh air around midday to help with circadian rhythm?

Not sure if you want some actual suggestions - sounds like you've tried the lot, your child is just a terrible sleeper at this stage, and you just need to vent. Sorry for all of the above suggestions if that's the case.

Tha ks @KarmaComma I'm always up for suggestions!

Yes we do everything you've suggested. Thing is he goes to bed easily and doesn't wake up in the night - he just wakes up early. So in that way he's a good sleeper I suppose- it's just our day starts so early.

I totally see how the nap is possibly the issue. But I also see him falling asleep in his lunch.

I just hate to see him so tired. I feel like I'm getting it so wrong.

I had an early riser too. Night mare.
You have to decide a time that you can live with (for us it was 6am) and then use sleep techniques to enforce it. At the weekend DH did one morning.
It does work eventually. Returning him, gro clock, reward chart, all of them.
Mine napped at this age. But between 1 and 3 (latest) my early riser just gradually shortened it himself until he wasn't going at all.
Then bedtime 7pm every day without fail.
I went to bed earlier myself. Never after 10pm.
It prob wont help you as its hard to see this for forward but shcool really helped his early rising.

One of mine napped until the summer before they started school, and I used the summer to stop her napping.

You’re just going to have not not Let him sleep. At all. No matter how tired he is. Don’t let him fall asleep at 5:30. That’s madness. He needs to get into a routine of sleeping at night.

When mine are dropping their midday nap and start getting tired in the afternoon early /evening I give them a bath, it wakes them up again enough to finish the day for me

Here’s the thing OP, and I’m not having a go and you, a lot of posters who put up questions about sleep want a magical answer which doesn’t upset their child yet changes everything. All routine changes face resistance from the child and a level of stress for the parents. But consistency does win through eventually.

good luck!

He fell asleep in the car - I had the windows open and radio blaring, what do you suggest I do?

Thanks to the people who've given me suggestions, I'll try anything!

Nope not looking for magical answers, just trying to find something that works. Sleep trained both children, they have very fixed routines, we have put a lot of time and work in on our kids sleep.

Is he still pooing lots? Have you looked at allergies.

I agree with dropping the nap and bedtime at 6.30. You will
need to allow more time for the bedtime routine if he is tired and grumpy. Any changes you do you need to stick to for at least 2 weeks.

No done extensive testing no allergies, he grew out of the frequency thank god...

This might just be one of the many things they just have to grow out of. He definitely won't be having a nap in a year's time, which in itself will help regulate his sleep.

You're probably at the worst point now because this has been going on so long, but you are nearing the end now. The attention seeking may be an aspect of personality but you will be better placed to deal with it when you aren't exhausted.

My DS is exactly same age as yours. We dropped the nap 6 months ago and some days he is so, so tired - especially at weekends. But ANY sleep after 2.30pm is a disaster for us - even a few minutes over, and he will be awake until 9pm or 10pm and still up at 6.30am next day but then grotty and tired. We can still manage a short nap at the weekend. I also find DS nods off in the car and it is impossible to keep him awake if he is exhausted so as far as possible I'd avoid longer car journeys while you are training new habits!

At this age, ive read that a 6am wake up is very common. But 4.30am is not sustainable for anyone. No wonder you are exhausted.

It was hard but we planned some days where you don't let DS sleep in the day - in the afternoon good gentle activities, outside in sunshine the afternoon helped a lot - eg chalks on the driveway, play with a big tub of water and some plastic pots and pans, teddies picnic at the park, take your regular toy cars or PlayDoh outside in the garden and play on a rug.

I find that there is an optimal amount of stimulation and exercise in a day - too much and my son wants to be in bed by 7pm which leads to a disrupted night and a very early start. Too little and I have to go on a campaign to wear him out before tea. Often we end up going for a bike ride to the park between teatime and bedtime which doesnt help as he gets over stimulated and resists bed, I'm still working on that!

When ds is tired we have tea finished by 6.00pm, get him in a long bath and drag out stories,milk, cleaning teeth, we listen to music he likes to settle him for bedtime 7.30pm. It works generally but often he is still awake at 8.30pm, sometimes 9pm. And he will get up once in the night still, majority of days. But he now sleeps til 7am most days. Yayyy.

Whatever pattern you choose you can and you WILL change his sleep pattern. But that nap HAS to go, aiming for at least 5 days a week with no nap at all. Im sure that's the key to it.

Worst case scenario: Go to bed early yourself and expect him to be up early but if/when he wakes up before 6.30am if he won't settle then you can bring him into your bed, don't engage with him, and let him play with a teddy or fall back to sleep.

OP it doesn’t just sound like it’s sleep though - but just generally being exhausted? I promise you, promise, that it gets easier. Quickly.

One thing I once read is that toddlers need two hours a day of running jumping climbing moving. I introduced that as much as I could with both my DCs and it definitely made a difference to their sleep and general behaviour.

on the sleep thing - every child is so different. Some are natural early risers - sounds like you found a good routine, keep at it. It will come right.

Yes we are exhausted and so is he which makes everything worse.

We had made such progress but today he has really fallen into how he used to be. So - few min walk to the park. He fell off his bike 3 times, he wasn't zooming around it was like he just... stopped thinking? Went to his swimming lesson, he needed step by step reminders of where to go to get changed etc. Just started shouting nonsense during the swim. Instructor loves him because he is so keen and enthusiastic but it was another level today.

Getting out he went totally stupid, threw his pants around, just didn't cooperate at all. Mostly not rude of defiant just not with it.

It's like all I say are instructions and it's exhausting.