Kelly Holmes interview on This Morning just broke me

[SpicyLaksa]

Just this really. Did anyone see it?

It was illegal to be gay in the army until the year 2000?? What?!!

I watched with an open mouth in absolute shock and disbelief! They had their belongings raided for evidence of their sexuality?!

I'll admit, I did wonder why Kelly hadn't come out before and couldn't understand why she felt she couldn't until now, but after hearing her absolute fear that she could be "found out" and be prosecuted by the army at any time, up until very recently...I'm just so sad for her. To carry that with you your entire adult life and to admit you can honestly say you have never been happy in your life, I'll admit I shed a few tears.

Thank goodness Kelly now feels able to be her true self and enjoy living authenticity and without fear.

Things have changed so much in the Army if its any consolation at all. DS is in the Army and his 'best' Army (male) friend is openly gay and married to a man.

It is easy to forget how things have changed for lesbians and gay men even in the last ten years. Such as same-sex marriage.

true, we should never take anything for granted and these rights were hard won
Thank you Dame Kelly for being an inspiration generally but especially to young lesbians

I think the general heterosexual population have no clue. I’m glad you have been educated. There is plenty more for you to be shocked by op

That’s shocking. I saw the front page of the papers and just wondered what the big deal was. It’s not like people care if you are gay or straight anymore, but that makes a bit more sense now.

My aunt was in the Navy and yes, it was bloody awful. Rights are hard won and easy lost.

I’m often shocked at how “young” you all are, the generations that came after mine. I’m in my 40s. So much has changed in my lifetime. So much has changed since my mother and grandmother came of age. It’s not just the rights of gays and lesbians that have improved dramatically. The lives of women and minorities were so very different in surprisingly recent history.

my husband and I are keep noticing this with our 13 year old. She can’t really grasp how swift the change has been. She never got to hear her grandmother talk about the freedom of being able to get her own bank account. She never heard that same grandmother complain about sexual harassment over dinner, yet go back to work the next day because she needed the paycheck. She never felt the stigma of her great-grandfather’s ‘secret’ boyfriend’s quick death in the early 80s, or felt the fear that he would get sick too.

it makes me worry because I don’t think people realize just how fragile this progress could be. It is still so recent, so fresh. It feels pervasive and it feels complete because it is right and true and wonderful, but so many people want to take it away.

Another thing to note was that lesbians and lesbian relationships were not recognised in law until the late 1990s, even though outside the forces and one or two other places not a sackable or criminal offence.

I'm 52 and things have changed so much in my lifetime. Younger people would be shocked at what 'wasn't allowed' when I was growing up.

@MrsPear I'm not actually in the heterosexual population. I'm a bisexual woman married to a woman and I was still shocked. That's not to say that I/we haven't experienced awful prejudice and bigotry. Even physical violence, but what Dame Kelly was describing is in a different league.

I was a student when the lifting of this awful ban was being discussed in the 1990s and I remember watching some debate show with my flatmates (it might have been Question Time or maybe the forerunner to Marr) and an old man in the audience asked the question, “is it right to allow perverts in the armed forces?”

This is what Dame KH and others were up against.

I joined the army in 1986. At that time, women had to resign if they became pregnant and could not rejoin.

And it's not better everywhere, even now. Homophobic bullying and resulting suicide is still far more common than it should be.

there is still plenty of homophobia around now - that’s why pride events and pride month are still so important - there are still people out there, including teens and children, who would rather be dead then gay. I cannot imagine having to live my entire life afraid to be who I freely am.

You must be younger then me @SpicyLaksa
section 28?
different ages of consents?
homophobia not being a crime?

none of that rings a bell?

lord how lucky some of you have been .

I could give my memories of the 90s in London if you wish. I suppose they are history and probably quite unbelievable to now. But if you wish to read I’m happy to share.

I’m not sure what was shocking about the interview.

Being gay in the forces being illegal isn’t exactly a secret, until fairly recently we has section 28, until recently there were no out sports people, or we had sports people who were so badly homophobically abused they died due to suicide. Then we have the fact that coming out could not only lead to being dropped by sponsors, it wouldn’t have been that unusual for someone to be dropped from a squad as they are no longer ‘suitable’.

Not just this. Skinheads roaming the streets. Rape legal within marriage. Black kids being beaten up in the back of vans.

Kids nowadays don't know they're born.

@MrsPear I'm genuinely not sure if you mean to come across as passive aggressive and sarcastic, but if you are I'm not sure why.

No, I wasn't aware that this was illegal.
Clearly or I wouldn't have started a thread about it, but I don't live in this inclusive, euphoric, rainbow land either. As I have said, I have had physical abuse for my relationship. It's difficult to feel lucky when you've experienced such violence and abuse, but I still accept that generally, people like me, who came out in the last decade, live in much more accepting times. If you want to share your stories, then yes, please do, but please don't point any anger towards me for sharing my disgust. We are on the same page.

I think it’s difficult for people under 40 to understand just how much society has changed in it’s acceptance of homosexuality. We clearly aren’t there yet, depressingly my dd14 tells me there’s still homophobia at her school. The fact only one male professional footballer in the country is openly gay blows my mind.

But I think when I was at school in the 80s and 90s it was so taboo that no one would dream of being open about it in school, staff or students, there was no acceptance outside a few parts of a few cities, being openly gay in my provincial town in the 1990s would almost certainly attract a violent response. I went to Sussex university and the number of people who specifically chose to go because it was safe(er) to be gay there, I lost count.

My friend was booted out of the army for being a lesbian years ago and was so ashamed by this that she married a man and lived very unhappily with him. Different times.

I’m sorry if I come across as passive aggressive @SpicyLaksa I didn’t mean too I’m just surprised how much has been forgotten. Yes we have made huge leaps in this country however homophobia does seem to be on the rise again. Plus only today in Japan gay marriage is once again ruled out. Then there is whole World Cup shambles with many fans saying they cannot go due to sexuality.
Just as a hint section 28 ruled that ‘promoting’ homosexuality was a crime. This meant in practice no teachers could be out - it was in the news recently about the first out head teacher, no mention of any relationships other than heterosexual. I remember sections blackened in biology books and pages removed. I was bullied for being gay - the teachers refused to discuss the issue, some even refusing to teach me. Nothing was done. I was simply an outcast. I went to the best school in the county but didn’t mean much.

so true, and I don't know how we can get younger people to appreciate this

Prejudice and Pride The Peoples History Of LGBTQ Britain was on BBC4 last week It covered a lot of what was mentioned here, might be on BBC i player.

AIDS The Unheard Tapes is showing on BBC4 from 27th June

There are still people living with convictions for having consensual adult same-sex relationships. A large section of the population grew up on section 28 and equal marriage was only legal throughout the UK as of 2020.