Football at playtime & disruptive behaviour

[Cheerfulcharlie]

Year 5 is single form entry so only 10 boys - 8 like to play football 2 are not bothered and play other things. One of the 8 boys who wants to play consistently disrupts the game so the others can’t play - bursts the ball, throws it over the wall, holds onto it, throws it in the faces of other players hard, sometimes punching or kicking others etc. Never more than a few minutes can be played without this happening. Teachers on duty won’t allow the boys to play football without the disruptive player as it’s not fair to leave him out which means football (or any other team game) cannot be played at all. He has ADHD if that is relevant.

I can see it’s not right to leave this boy out. However is it fair that none of the other boys can ever play football together at playtime? Should there be some system where they are allowed at least some time each day to play as they wish without disruption? Or , as the school suggests, everyone should sacrifice team games at break time so this boy does not become upset and disruptive? I suppose a staff member would need to be involved in occupying the pupil so he didn’t get upset at not being allowed to join in and as it’s break time maybe this is an unfair burden on the staff?

I’minterested how this situation is handled in other schools and whether I can talk to the school about this or should we just accept it's the way it is?

If someone was throwing a ball into my child’s face and the teachers were refusing to intervene I’d likely recommend that they did their best to respond in a manner that the little thug would be reminded of for the rest of their days.

As it’s not my child being asked about though, I’d say that the school is completely failing to safeguard your child, and you should request a meeting to ask what they intend to do about it.

What happens when they do PE?

Pretty much the same situation from what I hear. Difficult for everyone .

As a primary teacher we don’t do football except from the one lunchtime a week there’s a sports coach who can referee it on the field and some weeks he’ll do basketball or another game with them. Sports coachs were brought in post covid because kids were so inactive post covid. Football takes up the whole playtime and we were getting kids upset because some just wanted to kick a ball and others were moaning “Joe isn’t doing the offside rule”. We’ve got an after school football club plus there’s about 3 Saturday morning ones local so they’ve got lots of opportunities to do it but not at playtime.
Kids have got hoops, 2 climbing things, chalk and other playground toys. If we had one particular child deliberately/consistently breaking stuff, we’d ask the parents to pay, take them out of the playground activities, ban child from using them for a few days or if we had the adults say this is the corner you do chalk explicitly supervised by Mrs H.
If a child was hitting another you deal with it through the behaviour policy which should be on school website, however it’s a bit more discretionary when children have got SEN. A child in my class is on medication which has made them a lot more impulsive so you treat their behaviour a bit differently than their peers while still safeguarding.
bear in mind we’ve got the whole school so 200 kids out at the same time and supervision is the legal minimum (staff have expressed it doesn’t feel that safe many a time to no avail)

Honestly the school needs to deal with the hitting and i would complain if that’s your child being hurt using the language of “how are you ensuring the safeguarding of my child” but if particular games are causing such strife I can see why the teacher is banning them. Staffing is really tricky in many schools especially support staff so if he doesn’t have funding for 1:1 they won’t put one on for this child.
There are so many other games your child could do at playtime and lots of opportunities surely to play football outside school. Could you invite his mates to the park or your garden? Also is it an all boys school? What’s happening to the girls who might want to play football.
Your child has a right to have the opportunity to be active at play and be safe. He doesn’t have the right to play a particular game at playtime. I wouldn’t muddy the two issues of no football and being hurt otherwise honestly you’ll be “Sam’s precious mum whining her little angel doesn’t get the chance to play football”

Surely one of the parents has already complained?

I’d likely recommend that they did their best to respond in a manner that the little thug would be reminded of for the rest of their days
Jesus Christ, this is a kid with a diagnosed disorder, not a "thug"

Why aren’t the girls playing?

DS is 18. Football was banned at Lunchtime at primary school as it cause so many problems. There was after school football club and he continued with weekend football righg up till the end of this season.

same here. Football banned. But just in the ops first post you can see something is very wrong with the whole attitude of the boys playing, in that all the girls are excluded without question. It isn’t just the one individual who’s behaviour is unacceptable

It doesn't say anything about girls being excluded- it just says 8 boys like to play.
My son goes to a small primary and he also plays football each break/ lunch time. Non of the girls choose to play in his year. There is one boy who frequently gets a football ban for deliberately kicking the ball over into the adjacent field. Sometimes it's for the week, lady term though it was so repeated he got a full term ban.
Outside of school my son plays football on a mixed sex football team and the girls happen to be by far their stronger players. Just in school non of them want to.

Another problem with football, especially at small schools and in the winter(when not always allowed on the field) it can take up the whole of the playground

Football in primary schools is a nightmare for the staff most of the time!

but irrespective the school aren’t helping anyone by brushing the issues under the carpet. They are stopping the others having fun and even worse they are stopping this young lad from learning and encouraging him to think “but I have ADHD” is a very out of jail free card.

Your child has a right to have the opportunity to be active at play and be safe. He doesn’t have the right to play a particular game at playtime

Is this not exactly what op is saying re the other child though?

There is a difference between throwing the ball over the fence and punching. If the child hits someone the boys should go yo the teacher on duty and he should be made to sit out that day and be dealt with. However it is important that he is not made a scapegoat for anything that the others dislike. I would also recommend that a code of conduct is drawn up. They all sign it.
Ultimately though he cannot be permanent barred from playing with his friends. He can be removed as a penalty for breaking the code for one or two days but that's it. The school may well decide that if football is an issue they stop it outside supervised games.

My son has ADHD... he's a teenager now.

The playground is really tricky. From a sensory perspective it's easy to get overwhelmed quickly and football is particularly tricky with lots of running and interaction that kids with ADHD can crave but also struggle with.

My son spent a lot of time in the 'blue room' because of issues in the playground at primary.

When with me I could help him regulate and support him to understand the boundaries and rules but in a busy primary this never happens and situations like this arise very quickly.

This boy seems to need a lot more support- it's hard as his SEN isn't 'obvious' he's just 'badly behaved'

This boy won't ever learn he has a 'free pass'- what he will learn is that the other kids find him hard, he doesn't really know why he's difficult, he try's to be like other kids but can't and ultimately his self esteem is knocked again and again...

There are no easy answers to this but we need a radical overhaul of our education system, kids like this need boundaries and strucutre, parents need to understand this is not just naughty behaviour and how to support.

Please, please think about how you are labelling this child and what that can do to a kid at this age...

Talk to the school about what support he needs and what can they do to help him regulate and understand the rules ( behaviour and game)

I hope your school listens...

But just in the ops first post you can see something is very wrong with the whole attitude of the boys playing, in that all the girls are excluded without question.

Where does it mention girls being excluded? Aren't boys allowed to play footie on their own?

DS at primary had great time - they all wanted to play in his class where there were 12 boys. They played competitive games every break & lunch. Nobody used to disrupt.

He's now in year 7 and there's a boy who actually plays on his weekend team & it's high standard. Well he keeps throwing ball out of court & disrupting the game. So DS stopped taking a ball in as they kept getting lost in the hedge. He's getting fed up of similar behaviour to what you mentioned & I think he was lucky to have uninterrupted footie all through primary.

I can't work out why someone would behave like it - they won't have any friends surely? I don't think it's fair to do a blanket ban for all boys. DS really improved his footie playing so much in school. They need to work on social skills of the boy being disruptive.

Op can't talk to the school about the support someone else's child needs! The school won't speak to her for a start.

Another post all about boys playing football. What about the girls??why are there no girls in your ideallic description here of how wonderful your sons time playing football was?

The school is taking the easy option by banning football. It’s a cop out. I can understand why, teachers have enough to do without having to deal with regular break time issues as well, but this isn’t fair.

If there is a child that is continually disruptive and destructive then they need to be directed to something else. It is not right that one child’s behaviour prevents a whole group of children from getting exercise and playing team games. ADHD is irrelevant. School should cater for all childrens needs, including those that don’t have SEN.

There is plenty of space in most playgrounds for everyone to do what they want.

@Yodaisawally

I agree that they won't be all about the particular child's needs- sorry was rushing an answer....

But what they can do is discuss how the playground can be supported at break times to ensure that all children have the support they need to have the right exercise/ break etc.....

It doesn't have to be personal....

My main point really was to not label the child and look at the support that is needed and that is for all not just one....

I have many, many years of experience talking with schools and there is always a way to have the right conversation without making it personal.

Another post all about boys playing football. What about the girls??why are there no girls in your ideallic description here of how wonderful your sons time playing football was?

Perhaps because this is about the ops son and another child who is also a boy and therefore not about girls playing too?

Why is it just children who are micro managed like this? Do you think the teachers should say, 'right anyone not playing football, you will come and play in your free time regardless of whether you want to or not.' ?

During organised gym, absolutely school needs to be inclusive, my school days where girls did hockey and netball and boys rugby and football are thankfully long gone!

I disagree. A diagnosis doesn’t mean other children should be told to just stand there and allow themselves to be attacked. If teachers will not stop attacks happening it’s more than acceptable to tell a child to hit back to protect themselves.

They banned football at a school I taught at apart from for one set day a week (set up on a limited rota so that everyone got the chance of a turn and it didn’t take up the whole playground). At first there was uproar and then after the dust settled it was great: the children found there were so many other games they loved playing that they hadn’t even discovered before.