How to challenge the use of 'woman' as an insult?

[Hillrunning]

Once a week I work at a location different to my main one and it is really getting me down. Mostly male 3 to 6 depending on the day. Just one other female who is the first female they have ever hired she has been there about 6 months.

The low level shitty comments are starting to get to me. But the main one I'd like your help with challenging is that they call one male colleague a woman or refer to him as female in different contexts as though it is some hilarious joke.

E.g 'what do you mean we haven't had women here before, John started 4 years ago' roaring laughs. Ect. This has happen 4 times in my presence and for the last two I have said 'Not that being a women is an insult'. This is ment with with 'No not at all, we LOVE women' type comments. This is all in a group at lunch times and it is so fucking annoying.

There are other comments but I have an idea how to challenge thoes but has anyone got ideas on what to say if this comes up again. John, is a prize prat by the way so there is no getting him on board.

Honestly, you’re not the victim here, John is (yes the first class prat). He is being harassed, bullied and constantly misgendered by his colleagues. You’ve witnessed it 4 times. His prattishness may be directly related to working in a hostile environment where he is constantly being made fun of.

I would challenge this behaviour by reporting the harassment of John to HR or the General Manager. You don’t need John to agree, in fact most male victims of harassment do not report and would refuse to report if asked because toxic masculinity tells them snitches get stitches.

As you dont know how to approach, ask yourself why should you have to? You go to work to do the job and get paid not to manage a-holes.

You could challange this head on.
Tell them as a group that the comments stop and you expect basic respect and professional behaviours when you are on site and that if they cant manage to do that that it would be come a management issue. I am guessing that the group dynamic is such that tht approach won't work?

If so this is a direct to senior managemet issue.

Being a small unit the individuals will not change their attitude. The only way is that they understand that their jobs are at risk by continuing on their public behaviour.

Three staff are being bullied, John, the new staff member and you. If the men are making sexist "jokes" they are creating a hostile work environment.

But focus on you and you alone.
Document some of the comments and discuss the fact with your manager that their behaviour is creating a situation where you are no longer comfortable working in that environment.

Then its up to your manager to start the ball rolling to sort that out. If your employer is decent they will manage the changes needed, if not you need to request that your manager start training someone to provide cover.

So you would go straight in with a formal HR process? I've done that in a different company as there was no one else to go too but here I was wondering if talking to his boss first might be an option. Also a witness to harassment can claim discrimination if it has a negative effect on them too. Butbits interesting that you raised that as maybe it not one to include with the direct comments that have been made to me. Perhaps this muddys the water in a way that isn't useful for me.

@SolasAnla thank you for laying it out like that. Has cleared a lot up. The reason I am bringing it up at all is because I no longer want to work at the site. Not weekly anyway. That's a decision within my remit to make but they would expect some sort of explanation.

Yes if you have a general manager, go to them first before HR. I was unsure whether you were the boss in the scenario, if you were you would go to HR yourself to report it and get guidance on how to discipline the bullies.

I agree you as a female witness to harassment can claim as well since the tone of it is that women are lesser. However, John is the primary victim as all the comments and “jokes” are at his expense and directed towards him.

You don't have to start a "formal HR" process. It depends on your businesses culture of problem solving staffing issues.

It can be you making an informal observation of how you are unhappy with the site culture, that its not in line with the business as a whole. (Thats management speak for sort this out before I have to make an official complaint)
So your manager has an chance to give the other manager the heads up to sort it out before it becomes a "formal thing". (That culture developed /remains under the site managers watch.) The manager will should take the chance to explain to the men that they change or risk costing the business management time and money if it ends up in a formal process and their jobs become at risk. In good business the senior management won't want to have an site they can't send women to. That site culture is a reputation risk which can cost the business, management waste time on changing the culture while they could have been doing "growing the business stuff".

IMO you focus on how it impacts your ability to carry out your role. If they display that attitude to you, they will display it to every woman they encounter within the business and to business contacts. John and the new employee are both subject to bullying. But you can't fight other peoples battles in this type of work situation. You can open the door and give them the chance to come forward. You can highlight the risk 3 bullying claim would be to the business etc. Management have the choice to interview the other 2 employees and ask you for supporting evidence if necessary.

You best starting point is highlighting the site culture is stopping you or any woman from carrying out the role. The culture of your business will determine what happens next.

Honestly, you’re not the victim here, John is (yes the first class prat). He is being harassed, bullied and constantly misgendered by his colleagues.

I think that if you were joking in a similar way about being any other kind of demographic that has “minority” status in front of a person from that demographic, it would be seen as unacceptable and derogatory towards that person.

Why are women exempt from the same respect?

What are you going on about? John wasnt joking about being a woman. He was being called a woman.

John is the one being directly harassed, bullied and misgendered, the comments are all about him and directed at him.

Yes, as a woman looking on its uncomfortable and you are indirectly being harassed also, but you’re not the primary victim. If OP were the butt of jokes calling her a man, would you say that all her male colleagues are the real victims instead of the OP because its “derogatory” to them to call OP a man?

The difference between calling someone a man or a woman as a joke is status. The men making the jokes here are insulting Jon specifically and women in general by saying Jon is a woman and this makes him lesser.
Jon and the women are being sexually harassed.

What Magenta said.

I didn’t say John wasn’t a victim. I was objecting to the assertion that the OP wasn’t a victim.

Both are victims.

Well then you failed to read my other posts clarifying that I too think the OP is also a victim albeit in an indirect way. My initial post wasn’t intended to assert the OP isn’t affected too.

I am presuming that this is has started since the woman joined the team?

The comment is directed at both John and the OP or the other woman on site so its direct discrimination against both parties.

John is needed as the punchline yet the men involved could rotate the target individual
what do you mean we haven't had women here before, John/Mark/Alan started X years ago
So the "joke" needs a woman to be "in the room" so the intent is to sneer at the women in hearing range as well as John.

Complaints on behalf of other employees is never the best option when the behaviours involved have a direct negative impact on the employee reporting an incident.
It gives poor management an out in resolving the problem. John may not wish to make a complaint, not be in any position to make a complaint etc and be left in a worse position if the company decide that they will ignore the site culture because its more economically beneficial to turn a blind eye.