Child refuses to say sorry

[Sailorsgirl44]

My son is almost 9. He absolutely refuses to say sorry for anything. He just won't take any responsibility for his role in any wrongdoing.

Last week he was very bold and I said he could not use the computer until he apologised. Here we are...a full week later and he still can't use the computer. He would rather lose something he loves than apologise.

Today he hid his brothers toy... Refused to give it back. I found it a few hours later but he will not say sorry for this. I've said he won't get a treat tomorrow because of this but he doesn't seem to care.

His two siblings always apologise when they need to. I think being able to say sorry is such an important life skill... how do I get him to do it properly?

What @parrotonmyshoulder said.

Explore the feelings. No point in an empty apology just for the sake of it because that's what you'll get from him with the route you're taking. That doesn't teach him anything other than to say a word to get him out of trouble.

And you want all that to happen!!
And when it does happen, when he takes responsibility, he will say sorry.

But what isn’t going to happen is him saying sorry suddenly making him take responsibility if that makes sense.

Plus, I suspect that it’s not where the issue is just now. You are stuck in a situation where no one wants to lose face and is sticking to their guns. I think that, in itself, is much more damaging than not saying sorry tbh.

It sounds as if ‘saying sorry’ has become a challenge and a battle in its own right.

Focus instead on what happened and the consequences. The object, surely, is to stop him being rude to you, and unkind to his sibling.

So explain how rude and disrespectful his behaviour is, tell him how it makes you feel, and impose the consequence. Show kindness to his sibling, cuddles over loss of toy, speak to him firmly about unkindness. And about how kindness feels nicer.

People can reflect and feel sorry without saying sorry, and may need time to do that. Badgering to ‘say sorry’ is making him dig his heels in.

Meanwhile people ‘say sorry’ without meaning it all the time. Kids learn to yell / whine ‘sorry’ at the moment at which they hope it will save them from consequences.

Don’t use ‘say sorry’ as a punishment.

My DH finds it very difficult to say sorry. I explained that sometimes I need to hear it to be able to let "it" go.

He feels he shouldn't need to apologize because he already feels terrible.

Progress is slow.

I really don't like to hear loud parents telling their children to say sorry, it's meaningless parroting of a phrase to ge out of trouble and as others have said a waste of time. Would you really prefer that he says the words to get the computer back than actually regrets whatever he did?

I never understood that concept

I think your DS is seeing this as an attempt to humiliate him. Apologising = losing face.
My DC are adults now, but I tried right from toddlerhood to demonstrate that apologies were for everyone - including adults - and when they apologised for hitting each other or being naughty, I made a point of also apologising for shouting at them or whatever. That tended to take the heat out of it, and make it less of a child/adult power imbalance and more of a mutual “making amends” together.
Your son is still young enough for you to defuse this and model the behaviour you want from him. If he attends Sunday school, he will receive helpful reinforcement of the concepts of repentance for misdeeds, and forgiveness for genuine contrition, so you don’t have to achieve this by yourself. Good luck!

I find that some people get angry at rudeness as a but of a power/threatened authority response. But for a child, it's tough being permanently in the minor role.

I wasn't sorry when I was rude to someone because whether I said sorry or not, they kept all the power.

Rudeness to me is something that should make you SAD. Not angry. Most children respond a with a lot more genuine regret if they've made someone sad than if they've made someone angry.

(with the other stuff, like toy hiding, it sounds like that's a consequence of the first refusal)

making him say 'sorry' is pointless for 'big' things'. Teaching him to say 'sorry' (or something!!) as an automatic reaction for minor things (Brushing past someone) as a social norm is quite important.

but 'big' things (at his age - deliberately hiding a siblings toy/being 'bold') you do need to work out what's going on in his head. AND to get to the bottom of the whole thing, not just one bit of it.

when I was little my DB would do something (like take my doll) and I'd get her back off him, then he'd cry that I'd taken it off him and I would have to say sorry & give it back to him. No one was interested in the fact that actually it's MINE & HE took it off me!!

plus being MADE to say sorry isn't an apology anyway & he's allowed not to be sorry.

if he's 'naughty' give him a 'punishment/consequence🙄' for what he did. Saying 'sorry' doesn't mitigate his behaviour!!! It would be really good to teach that!!

Don't be ^that* parent.

Notice/Reward other kind behaviour!

I completely disagree with most of the pp’s. Of course he should say it whether he means it or not, it’s basic manners. Like teaching a child to say thank you when they’ve been given a rubbish present or something that they’re really not grateful for. Or asking permission before taking other peoples things when they don’t really care if they have permission, they’d just be happy to take it if manners weren’t insisted on. Or maybe by doing something kind or helpful to someone else when asked just to be nice, when they really don’t feel like being nice or helpful. These aren’t the best examples because I’m in a rush writing this, but I think people can get my meaning.
Op I don’t doubt he’s sorry, from the sounds of things they’re pretty heavy sanctions in his opinion. It seems like more of a battle of wills right now. He’s stubborn and rude and more focussed on proving his point that he can get away with disobeying you. I’d definitely be cracking down on this behaviour (like you have been doing), instead of fannying around trying to teach him life lessons to try and make him behave decently. He’s old enough to know what empathy is and the difference between right and wrong.

I suppose the point is, what are you trying to achieve by getting him to say sorry? Why is it so important to you?

You don't want him to just parrot and say the word 'sorry' without actually understanding/ meaning it.

So the only way to really help him is to try and understand how he is feeling. He is probably struggling with empathy and actually grasping why what he has done has upset someone. Or you have made it into a battle of wills so as soon as he says sorry you have 'won'. That's not what it should be about - it should be about helping him develop his empathy, so start there. Don't make it all about a word.

Most PPs are arguing a different point: that being sorry is different from saying sorry, and that regretting consequences are different from regretting the action itself.

If you haven't yet finished the task of teaching empathy (which is a lifetime in the learning), then the answer isn't to just say "well, you're old enough to know better", which is just the ultimate cop out for people who are bored of parenting.

He’s old enough to know what empathy is and the difference between right and wrong.

sorry but that made me laugh.
You don’t have to look too far to see that any adults don’t know what empathy is or the difference between right and wrong (starting with our PM). If you think that at that age, you are done as a parent teaching empathy and separating right and wrong, you are naive to say the least.

Having said that you are right that it’s a battle of wills. And ime, the way to deal with a battle of wills is NOT to come down hard on the child and to be the ‘strongest’ one at imposing your pov.

Maybe he needs a third way out. A way to make amends by doing rather than saying, to avoid losing face. If you can establish a habit of finding ways to enable this, you can work your way back to the words.

We always say to our DC that a real "sorry" is doing it differently next time.

Eg DS nicked my phone. We turned the house upside down, I eventually found it in his room but I left it there. I told the whole house I was going out and I wanted whoever had it to put it back on my bed while I was out. DS brought it back and put it back on my bed. About 10 mins after I returned he'd cracked, said he was really sorry, lots of tears. It wasn't really a battle of wills, he'd got himself trapped in an impossible situation he couldn't solve until he was given a way out. If you can finesse a way for him to make restitution, it's easier for you both to move past it.

Someone I know won't say sorry for something that was unintentional. 'I didn't mean to bump into you and knock you over, so why do I have to say sorry?'

Obviously if you did something intentional then actually sorry isn't good enough!

People sometimes misunderstand what the word is.

I was forced a lot to say sorry for things even if I wasn’t the one at fault. When I was younger I would deliberately hurt people sometimes and a quick sorry would make everything ok. When other deliberately hurt me I was supposed to just accept the sorry.
Sorry is now something that is meaningless to me.

With my own I would ask why they did the thing. Talk about how others feel and if it happened to them how they would feel. They have more empathy than me as a result.

Thanks for advice so far. I am surprised so many think it's wrong to insist on an apology. I suppose I want him to take accountability, to take responsibility for wrongdoing..to own his actions. I'll try to be more open to achieving this but without him saying the actual word sorry.. I'm going to find that hard!

My 10yo is almost the opposite and thinks 'sorry' will fix just about anything.

We've had some success in putting the solution back on him. So instead of saying sorry/not saying sorry, it's 'how do you think you can make this right?'

It helps to get underneath the issue of whether they really understand that what they did was wrong, which is so important. and the idea that it's on them to find a way to fix it.

For all the PP who think the softer way doesn't work, my DD at 11 says sorry beautifully, genuinely and frequently. She also 'fixes' things. If she spills something, she cleans up. If she hurts someone, she makes them something.

We modelled our own sorrys, worked in relationship and empathy, and gave consequences for the behaviour, not the presence or lack of apology.

I don't think you're wrong, OP. But I am beginning to see why the children my friend and caught vandalising the village hall at the weekend, couldn't bring themselves to say 'sorry', either.

My DD wouldn't have done that in the first place. Exactly what would an apology mean from someone who thought ruining something for fun was good? The behaviour is the issue, not the apology.

it is extrememly rare for someone to be born a sciopath, someone without empathy...its mostly a reaction to , or a result of anger, pain caused by someone whom thinks they are right....like putin, hitler.... calm down, feel empathy, love him and tell him you don't undestand why, but are there for him, to help him and answer any of his questions.... especially to help him and listen... I wrote a poem about this a long time ago....the first few lines were....Did you ever love me, listen closely to my needs, was it when I got bigger that your love went astray, because paranoid rules and expections stole your love away...

Forcing him to say sorry is going to achieve the opposite of what you want - you are not encouraging him to take responsibility, you are just trying to force him to say an empty phrase.

Do you model sayings orry yourself, are you good at apologising? Do you apologise menaingfully to him when you make mistakes or hurt his feelings?

Talk to him about how he feels when he does something wrong and try to get him to reflect on how it would have made the other person feel. Try to respect his feelings if you want him to respect yours. Respect is two-way.

A long and successful career in politics awaits. I hope you've signed him up for the young conservatives. After all, the motto is "Never ... Say ... Sorry".

youth.conservatives.com/

Here's a resource for empathy development that might be helpful. www.empathylab.uk/family-activities-pack-2022

Thanks for all the messages.. Today I used the 'how do we fix this' line when he lost his temper and kicked his brother over where they were sitting in car. He didn't really have an answer..just said it was his brothers fault. Which it was not. I didn't feel things were resolved satisfactorily at all.

I'm not at all comfortable with him being badly behaved and not apologising afterwards. But am very open minded about trying different ideas. As my way clearly isn't working! Thanks to whoever posted the empathy pack...I've downloaded it and we might do it over the summer.

To the person who said their daughter always apologises, etc... My other two children are very good for taking responsibility for their actions - they will apologise where appropriate. I've parented them all the same.

I do think it's a basic life skill to be able to say 'i'm sorry'. But am going to try really hard not to insist on it.

I'm aware that when I apologize to him I am modelling the behaviour I want to see. I have apologised to him far more often than my other 2 children!

Can you do the classic
‘would you like it if he kicked you?’
’well how would you feel if he kicked you’
‘do we kick people normally? Why not?’
as a hand hold to empathy and imagining other peoples feelings

perhaps brother can apologise for doing whatever was annoying and DS can apologise for kicking?

If she hurts someone, she makes them something

Ah the good old "I've bought/made you this so you know I've made up for being a cunt and I'll do the same again without a second thought as I've got away with it again" sorry.

That's all right then. You do you. Other people parent their children.

Do you often refer to small children as cunts? Because that doesn't really sound like you're a particularly good person, never mind parent.