Did anyone else ever wonder how come we have a German royal family here in England?

[BlueTitSmilingAtMe]

I did, and idly googling have found out the answer.

They just didn't want a Catholic monarch! Fascinating stuff:

www.englishmonarchs.co.uk/hanover.htm

Did you get taught this in school? I didn't.

none of the royal families of Europe are originally - as in way back - from the countries over which they ruled. It didn't work like that.

George I was hanovarian (Hanover had salic law so Victoria couldn't inherit - her uncle/cousin Cambridge did. Until then the crown of england ruled Hanover too - of course all a matter of history after Bismarck etc), Every ruler since him was born in UK afaik.

I knew all of this history and didn't grow up in the UK.

James's father wasn't a french king (that was Mary's first husband - they had no children). His father was Darnley who was also a great grandchild of Henry VII.

Oh yes, Im normally good with remembering all that, and thats a classic eastenders car crash story how could I forget that!!

Yes thats right

James was the son of Mary QoS and Lord Darnley. Darnley was her 2nd husband - she was married to the King of France before that.

Darnleys grandmother was Margaret Tudor - daughter of Henry 7 and sister of Henry 8.

All the royal houses are interrelated in lots of different generations (and a lot of them had the same names 😆)

Humans like stories to to explain the world. And we really like elites.

It doesn't really make sense to talk about nations or national identity with regard to those days. Most people's identity revolved around their own village and often religion, since that's what they encountered in daily life. At the top, as you've rightly noted, international dynastic politics. "Nations" don't really start to evolve until 1800 or so, which is when you get national mass media, universal education and male conscription. Hobsbawm thought it was all to do with industrialisation/the needs of a capitalist society.

I'm catholic so yes

Great thread!

Well yeah, but I'm Catholic and Scottish so ya know...

I was actually in London last weekend when they'd already started putting the union flags out. Have not seen one here though.

Ah right yes. And so you get weapons that kill more people because you want to wipe out a bigger area including civilians.

Or do you think it's okay to wipe out civilians because everyone in a country is an enemy, because they are part of a state?

Maybe it's a bit of an infernal wheel.

All the shenanigans leads to a certain type of English person who goes on about how "we'd all be speaking German" if the third Reich had extended but also waves their flag for a German queen.

I didnt learn this in school, don't remember doing the Georgians or later years of the Stuart. Learnt it from Horrible Histories instead 😁

Up until 2015 the Succession Act also meant that royals couldn't marry catholics. Peter Phillip's ex wife Autumn was raised a Catholic and she renounced her faith when they got married, if she hadn't he would have lost his place in line to the throne.

What German queen?

If you mean the current queen she is British.

And as for wars that you referenced, yes, that is what has happened for eons, the more powerful the state/nation/country, the more it improved it technology to ensure that it wins other wars, both physical and propaganda/trade wars.

Er, you do know that every family in Britain came from Europe, right? And Africa before that? It’s not like any humans evolved in Britain 🤣

That was rather my point

What is the furthest back (in the line of succession) has someone made it to the throne? I believe Victoria was quite far back and that the Queen and Prince Philip were her Great Great/Great Great Great Grandchildren.

Well if the Queen rules by birthright/descent then birthright/descent is what counts so she's German. But as far as I can see it gets muddied by this nation state thing that came along and ran alongside the birthright/descent idea.

Re wars, I think civilians being killed in them routinely is fairly recent? Certainly being killed on a large scale is really recent, although I guess only one country (USA) has actually gone atomic so maybe that will turn out to be an anomaly, long term.

Are you including usurpers?

It never ceases to amaze me how little British people know of your own history.

She isnt German, not quite sure why you're determined to go along this path

Her family originally had a German name which they obviously changed, but her father was British her mother was Scottish I think. She wasnt even likely to be monarch, it was expected her uncle would rule, have children and she wouldnt have been in that position, particularly being female.

My name apparently came over with the Normans. Im not French though.

It depends on your definition of civillians. The UK (England or Britain depends how you term it) didnt have a standing army or navy for centuries, the civilians were expected to fight for the local lords.

Look up the death rates for the civil war.

@NannyOggsWhiskyStash it wasn’t Henry VIII, nice he broke from Rome he was still Catholic. It was his daughter Elizabeth I who was the first Protestant Monarch and Protestantism was spreading fast at the time.

I'm not British. I only know what I know from documentaries/films and books. It's only the past few years I've started to want to know more.

She isnt German, not quite sure why you're determined to go along this path.

She's Saxe-Coburg and rules by divine right of being Saxe-Coburg. Isn't she? And they're German. Aren't they?

Civilians I would count as people not being on military payroll or receiving military stipend.

If we knew more we wouldn't put up with the shit we do, that's for sure.

I even studied history at a level, would you believe. We learned about the history of medicine and, basically, current events ie Bismarck and the two world wars.

Victoria is an interesting one, her father was only the fourth son of the reigning King but she was actually deliberately conceived to be Queen.

Before she was born King George III had only 1 legitimate grandchild but she died while giving birth (the baby was stillborn) . This created a succession crisis and his unmarried sons (including Victoria's father) went and got married and tried to conceive. So when she was born she was like 5th in line but pretty much guaranteed to be Queen as everyone ahead of her in line was a man aged 50+