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Question for the Doctors of MN

71 replies

Regularmumnetter · 28/05/2022 17:18

DC considering doing a medicine course and have done a fair bit of online research so far. But have a few questions left:

  1. after doing FY1 and FY2 in the NHS is it possible to move abroad, say USA, to begin speciality training? (would honestly be happy to work for anyone but the NHS)
  2. can you choose each rotation you do during FYs?
  3. what was the hardest year of med journey, e.g med school, FY, core training.
  4. As I have found online after FY there are 3 years core training and 3 years sub speciality - how does a surgeon speciality pathway differ from this? and is it possible to take maternity leave during these years?
OP posts:
Notagardener · 29/05/2022 09:54

Those that I know who studied abroad where those that couldn't get a place in the UK. But I have only met those that have come back to the uk to work in the NHS .
And regarding us med students, hm, there are lot of things they are not used to compared to uk med students, as lots of the more practical work is done by nursing staff in the USA, and also in several EU countries I worked in

Justkeeppedaling · 29/05/2022 10:36

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I don't disagree with what you've said, but if she's moving abroad to work after (during?) qualifying, presumably she won't expect the British taxpayer to fund her initial training in the U.K.?

Personally id prefer that money to go towards funding a doctor who plans on staying in the country.

Katya213 · 29/05/2022 10:57

Notagardener · 29/05/2022 09:54

Those that I know who studied abroad where those that couldn't get a place in the UK. But I have only met those that have come back to the uk to work in the NHS .
And regarding us med students, hm, there are lot of things they are not used to compared to uk med students, as lots of the more practical work is done by nursing staff in the USA, and also in several EU countries I worked in

I absolutely agree with you. The knowledge was there but they couldn't even take blood or put a cannula in.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about this subject:

DrRuthGalloway · 29/05/2022 10:57

"The NHS treats junior doctors terribly and pays them less than a shelf stacker in Aldi in exchange"

Really? Shelf stacker MAX pay is 16k, average 10k.

Rock bottom minimum pay for a junior doctor is 25,494 , for a specialty registrar 33k.

I mean this is as it should be, obviously, but I don't understand your comparison. Do you mean if you looked at hourly pay?

Regularmumnetter · 29/05/2022 11:24

Kendodd · 28/05/2022 22:56

Has she thought about being a doctor in the military?
The package looks quite good, my daughter was thinking of it.
apply.army.mod.uk/roles/army-medical-service/doctor

Will definitely look into this!

OP posts:
taybert · 29/05/2022 11:26

Something that’s worth considering is that UK medical training is sort of all geared up
for working in the NHS and all takes place in the NHS. So whilst it’s perfectly possible to leave afterwards (and plenty of people do), you do have to spend quite a lot of time learning and working in that system. If she’s dead set against it then that might be quite hard to stay motivated etc when it’s just not what she wants to do. It’s also going to be difficult for her to get a good idea of whether she’s actually going to enjoy doing the job as it’s going to be difficult to get work experience outside NHS work.

I agree with a PP that the US is almost certainly no better than the UK in terms of being a junior doctor, it’s very possibly worse and if maternity rights are a consideration then it definitely is.

It’s important to remember that wherever she ends up working, at the end of the day it is a job. Medicine attracts highly intelligent focussed people, who are often interested in what the career brings to them (which is reasonable) and where they want to be at the end of it. But it’s still a job, there’s still drudgery, you still do stuff you don’t need years of training for, there’s service provision, you need flexibility, you’re there to do a job, it’s not an interesting hobby or academic pursuit, you’ve been trained to provide a service. It’s weirdly something a lot of medics haven’t really thought of until they’re re writing drug charts at 4am. It’s a source of significant dissatisfaction for quite a few doctors especially in the early years.

I’d also encourage your daughter, if she has questions, to try to do some research herself in finding the answers. There’s a wealth of information on websites and forums and in finding the answers she’s likely to come across a lot more useful information to help inform her decision.

Good luck to her in whatever she decides to do.

Regularmumnetter · 29/05/2022 11:31

Seen a few comments about wanting to work in the USA because she is under the impression that it is easier - this is definitely not the case! From the research we’ve both done online, the USA training is “harder” and a lot more hours but proclaiming that the training is a lot higher standard which my DD obviously wants as well as wanting to my abroad short term at some point - will definitely mention to her Australia and New Zealand. Also a lot of comments about her looking in the long term to be weird I completely don’t understand as women we are expecting to take a lot more leave than men so she wants too see how her career path will differ from a mans. And how much the length of training would be affected by having a family as we know that training is often already a decade! And waiting until after training could not be an option.

OP posts:
taybert · 29/05/2022 11:48

I think the point that people are making is that the reasons for not working in the NHS given are based around poor conditions and pay for juniors- those are not better in the US.

Crinklecuts · 29/05/2022 23:25

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HappydaysArehere · 29/05/2022 23:39

unfortunatelyno · 28/05/2022 17:21

Would honestly be happy to work for anyone but the NHS? After taking all that funding for their training? Definitely not the right attitude for a doctor, they shouldn't even consider doing this.

Exactly that. Not the right attitude. Shame on you.

titchy · 30/05/2022 10:40

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You teach at a university free of charge do you? You provide all the equipment needed for clinical trainees free of charge? Wow. Most unis I know spend millions setting up their med schools. And you do it for free. Amazing.

Abra1d1 · 30/05/2022 10:51

notorious means well known
Eh?

Regularmumnetter · 30/05/2022 11:52

There seems to be quite a difference here between actual doctors opinions on the NHS and people who are just using the NHS services opinions.

OP posts:
Crinklecuts · 30/05/2022 12:14

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This message has been withdrawn at the poster's request

WilmaFlintstone1 · 30/05/2022 12:25

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Well aren’t you nice….let’s hope your daughter doesn’t take after you! Someone made a valid point and you call them a troll. Reported.

titchy · 30/05/2022 12:36

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From that link £163k is provided in the form of grant to unis or placement providers. Where do you think the £163k comes from?

I actually estimated £100k as I accounted for the fee loan. So the public subsidy is a lot more that I originally thought.

Tuition fees pay a fraction of the real costs of many courses - look at overseas fees for an idea of real cost in most cases.

The difference comes from central Gov grants - ie from taxation.

titchy · 30/05/2022 12:36

I don't disagree about salary or conditions btw.

TheVeryHungryTortoise · 30/05/2022 13:51

I'm not a doctor yet, but I am starting final year of medicine in two weeks time and will be applying for foundation training in the coming months. Therefore, I may be able to answer questions around that process better than some of the lovely doctors here that are higher up in their careers so feel free to message me if you wish. Although, the UKFPO loves to change the application process year on year so it will likely be different when your DD applies.

Notodaynotever · 30/05/2022 14:54

Some doctors here seem to think they have paid for their medical education with their student loan. What a naive notion! Maybe if you paid for your education there would be money to train more of you, pay you more and give more days off to very junior doctors. But doctors like to compare themselves to very high achieving jobs in the public sector (overlooking the relative job security they have) and don't realise you are expected to do weekends, nights and all sorts of keen ambitious hours in these roles in the beginning years.

OP, I would keep your daughter's ambitions to yourself. They do involve getting a bargain price education and then shuttling off to enjoy life where others will be paying college fees disproportionately more. She can study anywhere in the world. She should leave our medical places for doctors who will work here as they're sorely needed.

Notodaynotever · 30/05/2022 14:55

Private sector

justasking111 · 30/05/2022 14:59

I typed into Google concierge doctors near me. There's three one my old GP who retired, one at a different practice whos a dad at our school and one I didn't know. So NHS gps do private work around here unconnected to Bupa etc

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