If your child attends independent school and it's helped their confidence

[aaronsnorkelling]

How precisely have they done it?
It can't just be smaller class sizes. I went to private school
We did a bit of sport but not a huge amount so it's not that.

We were explicitly told a few things, like stand up when adults enter a room, hold doors open for others (remember spending ages holding doors at corridor for older girls)

My school had a real focus on reading aloud, and I am therefore naturally unphased by doing a reading in church for eg.

Just wondering what makes a difference ?

My kids are at the local state schools as despite both attending private school, my dh and I don't earn enough ourselves to send them (a wise MNers pointed out that it can't have been all that!)

Well, yes, but op can still expect a range of views.

Both Dh and I were privately educated, our children are not. I have a view...

I think the problem is these threads always attract defensive responses from posters / teachers which is a shame.

Not all state schools are the same and of course neither are all independent schools. But there is no way we can dismiss the disparity in results and in earnings as rich children being cleverer than poor ones.

No tutting from here at all, I am just questioning the assumption that putting your child in private education necessarily correlates to them gaining self confidence as I think there are many factors that come to play in respect to that in the world of child development. My children are in state school, I was privately educated so I have some knowledge of both..

My children have benefitted from:

1. constant plays, music recitals and presentations. Mandatory presence at open days and focus on manners
2. you’re expected to contribute in class and with small class sizes nobody can hide
3. peer pressure to stick your hand up and say your piece

Wtf?

That's not my point.

My point is that if OP has asked the parents of kids in independent schools their opinion on something, it's not unreasonable to hope that the conversation is about that and not about whether private education is a waste of money.

Otherwise post in AIBU and fill your boots.

Heaven forbid someone has a different opinion or experience.

The Q is "If your child attends independent school and it's helped their confidence..."

That doesn't mean the poster assumes indy schools help all children's confidence. She is just interested in what aspects of indy education have helped children's confidence where it has. People have suggested small class sizes, being encouraged to participate etc. I suggested just having an underlying ethos that conveys belief in children's abilities is important. None of that requires slagging off indy v state or state v indy.

But since the OP, like me, can't afford to send her kids to indy schools dwelling on features that cannot be recreated at state schools like small class sizes is probably not that constructive. The features we can support if our children attend state schools like extra-curricular activities, good pastoral care, parental engagement, promoting self-belief etc may be helpful. We can assume that unless we're monsters we probably all want good outcomes for our children.

FWIW the smartest student I ever taught at a Russell Group uni was exclusively home-educated and extremely confident with excellent interpersonal skills - now a very senior official in a public-facing role. It wouldn't be for me but it had worked out well for that person.

There's no right way to educate children but we can always try to optimise.

I think it hugely depends on the school and maybe the demographics but I broadly agree with that. My dd used to be a shy, quiet girl (outside with her peers) and used.to.feel intimidated by large groups of kids. She did reception at a state school with 60 kids in her class (combined year group). The head teacher and teachers were amazing and I thought most kids were nice as well but I think the large class size did mean that she neither got much time with the teacher nor enough time with individual kids to make friends. It was also a constant struggle to access resources (like some of the more coveted toys or areas in their class room) or have her voice her.

She's joined an independent school for year 1. She's grown massively in confidence and has become a lot more adventurous, social and outgoing. She's made lots of friends and is now.happy to talk to anyone. It could just be part of her normal development and maybe the same would have happened if she had remained at her school but I do think the small class size and individual attention helps.

I think it depends on the particular school though..her independent school isn't particularly fancy or famous. It doesn't have the kids of celebrities (most of the parents seem to be doctors).

You can't hide in a small class which is good for some

I think both private and state schools vary so greatly that you can't generalise about either (and a middle-class child at a naice state school has plenty in common with a privately-educated kid). I've been to loads of schools of all kinds and it's not necessarily the case that class sizes are smaller/bigger, teachers are better/worse, there's any opportunity to build "connections" etc. I think it's as much to do with "soft"/cultural advantages (being made to feel that you're perfectly entitled to apply for a job/university etc; being told that getting the top grades is for the likes of you; having sat end-of-year exams every year by the time you sit your GCSEs; less emphasis on behaviour management in class) as "hard"/measurable ones (smaller class sizes, better facilities).
I'm not here to defend private education, nor to state that I think socioeconomic disadvantage can be overcome through a "can-do attitude". I just think it's more complex than "class sizes"/"more money"/"connections", and that I think being told that success is for the likes of you makes you feel more able to have a go at things in the first place.

Moved from state to independent. Massive difference. A lot of the confidence is around how the teachers speak to the children with respect, and listen to the children’s thoughts. The children aren’t locked outside at break, they move freely around the school buildings and grounds and are trusted to go where they are supposed to when they’re supposed to, including moving around different buildings for different lessoms.

They also get practice giving presentations and playing sport with other schools etc. Good behaviour and hard work is publically praised and rewarded - DD was ignored by teachers in State school while disruptive kids were praised for sitting still for 5 min. At independent school DD is seen, heard, and rewarded for her efforts.

The biggest difference is that at State school DD met teachers and children who didn’t treat her well and she felt powerless. Here she isn’t powerless.

@Lavenderlast post is why generalisations are so difficult. Obviously its really bad her DD had such a bad experience at state school and its good she is thriving at an independent school. But I have only ever known state schools which allow children to move around the building and move to different buildings for different lessons (assuming this is secondary how could they not change classroom for science/tech/art/pe/computing etc), play sport against other schools and encourage children to present in class. I had annual exams as does DD, and she gets loads of praise for good homework etc. As far as she is concerned teachers are all nice and treat her with respect and they all seemed nice at Parents Evening. This is a fairly ordinary comp near our house in a low income, rural area in the North but it seems like the one I went to in a naice urban suburb.

I absolutely think if your child is not thriving in a bad school and the best local option is an indy and you can afford it choose it. But it seems really odd to assume most state schools don't do these very normal things.

I'm always bemused when people post a litany like that and imagine it's the sole preserve of independent schools.

I have taught in both the independent and state sectors. It is true that collectively, Independent school kids have bags and bags of confidence, more so than you see in the state sector. Many of them, however, are musicians, sports people, performers. They have llamda lessons, are expected to take part in assemblies, class productions, concerts, sports fixtures. They are constantly out there representing the school at something, they get certificates and commendations for just participating. They are constantly told they are amazing, both by their parents and by their teachers. There are teachers providing a wide range of extra curricula activities so the sheer breath and range of that gives more kids the opportunity to find something they are good at. Their achievements are recorded and used on social media for school marketing - they get likes from the whole school community.

State school kids have more kids in the classroom, there is more space to hide, there isn’t the constant expectation of representation because there are plenty of kids to choose from. Many of them are also great performers and sports men but they don’t do as many concerts or productions or sports meets.

I think it’s about the cohort and aspirations. In private sector, most families are reasonably financially successful. Which means all the kids see their parents and their friends’ parents doing either jobs that pay well or at least well enough. So they’re used to being around people who are successful, and it feels normal. So they learn that that’s what life is like, and they expect theirs to turn out the same, and gave confidence in their ability to get there. I don’t think it’s anything the school does per se…

Thanks for all the replies
Definitely did not want to make this a state v private thread
I am interested in the pastoral stuff too I guess, I don't know how else to explain what I mean by confident.

But yes an expectation that life will be okay for them... and they will get selected

There was lots my school didn't prepare me for too, so it's swings and roundabouts I guess