If your child attends independent school and it's helped their confidence

[aaronsnorkelling]

How precisely have they done it?
It can't just be smaller class sizes. I went to private school
We did a bit of sport but not a huge amount so it's not that.

We were explicitly told a few things, like stand up when adults enter a room, hold doors open for others (remember spending ages holding doors at corridor for older girls)

My school had a real focus on reading aloud, and I am therefore naturally unphased by doing a reading in church for eg.

Just wondering what makes a difference ?

My kids are at the local state schools as despite both attending private school, my dh and I don't earn enough ourselves to send them (a wise MNers pointed out that it can't have been all that!)

No one?

My guess would be that it has more to do with having fairly well off parents - and therefore, in general, a comfortable “gilded” life where things tend to go well - than anything the school does per se.

Some of the state schools round here have a mostly very affluent demographic due to catchment area. The kids that go there seem very confident.

Small class sizes means they CAN do the standing up and reading a poem in assembly thing regularly, it means more fairness in dishing out activities and roles that grow confidence etc. more time for teachers to focus on ALL kids not just the ones who misbehave or have other issues going on. If you’re not a naturally confident child, it’s easy to be ignored, and teachers are under strain right now to keep up with their pupils needs.

MY DD was really shy going into Year 7. Now she is doing her GCSEs and the change in her personality is quite significant. She is still reticent but not so much that it hinders her socially.

I think this is because at her independent school teachers actually talk to the students, throw around ideas, invite discussion even dissension. Teachers and students discuss the subjects more like equals and less "solemn adult teaches cowering pupil".

Which means the students are unfazed when it comes to talking to other adults. That is my theory anyway...

Why are you necessarily linking independent schools to confidence? It doesn't correlate like that. I went to one and we were a broad spectrum of kids, confidence wise, much like anywhere else.

I think this is because at her independent school teachers actually talk to the students, throw around ideas, invite discussion even dissension. Teachers and students discuss the subjects more like equals and less "solemn adult teaches cowering pupil".
Sweet Jesus...

I went to an independent school and it utterly crushed my confidence.

I would say it was less about school and more about individual personalities or parents who bolster DC at home.

The opportunities to take part in stuff. Ds goes to a small independent day school. He gets to do stuff that he might not in state school (wider variety of sports and activities/ clubs).

He doesn’t need to be as pushy to get picked for things because there’s less kids, he’s not a pushy boy and would miss out in a huge comprehensive.

He takes part in public speaking lessons, which have done wonders for him. He does speech and drama exams.

All the staff know every child and their strengths/ qualities. My ds knows he is visible. That makes him feel valued and secure.

I think the key factor is going in at age 11 and coming out at age 16 or 18. I find in my extensive experience of young people that many of them progress in confidence as they grow up.

It has chuff all to do with independent school specifically.

Have you ever been in a state school since the 1950s??? All decent teachers do the things you describe - and teachers in the state sector are on the whole better trained and better developed than in independent schools.

Some schools actively encourage that independence - my dcs school they have one lunch a week with the teacher and he will take turns conversing with them, they are encouraged to take part in the multiple shows that take place throughout the year not just at xmas and end of year.

They also have lunch with the head where he will sit with small groups of pupils. They have a big focus on sports so they represent their school on home ground and away.

They just have more opportunities to shine at whatever their aptitudes are.

Sending kids to independent school is not just about grades or eventual salary, I think there’s a lot to be said for living a more confident fulfilled life.

Sending kids to independent school is not just about grades or eventual salary, I think there’s a lot to be said for living a more confident fulfilled life.

There is absolutely no evidence that children from the same socio economic background from independent school have more 'confident fulfilled lives' than those from state school.

People want to justify their choices, I do understand that, but beyond buying contacts if you send kids to the 'best' schools, independent school is basically a waste of cash.

independent school is basically a waste of cash

What a sweeping generalisation! Considering nearly 70% of the current cabinet went to private/grammar schools. And a sizeable chunk of actors, entertainers, business leaders, technology whiz kids- many of them privately educated. I wouldn't say their money was wasted, would you?

And dismissing every private school student's success as nepotism or "contacts" is really facile.

Yes fortunate family circumstances, steady and reliable income etc etc all contribute to confidence (even a sense of entitlement). But you cannot discount the role of the school -private or comprehensive.

teachers in the state sector are on the whole better trained and better developed than in independent schools.

Again another breath-taking generalisation. What are you basing this on?

I would hope you are in the teaching profession and you have worked in both sectors. Or a parent with DCs who attended both state/private schools.

Even if this was true, even if teachers in the state sector are the creme of the teaching profession, do they have the time and resources to actually, you know teach? Werent there threads and threads on MN on teacher burnout, admin burden and constant Govt. intereference?

The private sector is insulated to an extent from these issues. And even when these issues threaten actual performance, they are mitigated by smaller cohort sizes ergo less stress all round. Of course there are exceptions on both sides, but this is the general crux of it

My daughter was at “Public School.” Her father & I worked hard to afford it.
I would say it did give her confidence and for sure all the positive contributions on here underline what was a fantastic experience for her. Most of the faculty had doctorates & their contributions to my offspring’s education & fulfilment was without boundaries.
My late husband on one occasion did ask my daughter “What was the best gift we ever gave you?” Without hesitation she replied “My education Dad.”
That said it all.

Your comment nearly 70% of the current cabinet went to private/grammar schools. And a sizeable chunk of actors, entertainers, business leaders, technology whiz kids- many of them privately educated. I wouldn't say their money was wasted, would you? does highlight that the UK has a problem in that it is not a meritocracy, but for the majority of kids who go to private school it is still a waste of money as there is no evidence they end up happier. They may end up richer I grant you - but then they were rich to start with, rich enough to go to private school.

There is nothing in the schooling itself that is inherently better.

I am not sure your reading comprehansion is switched on today!

I did not say state schools did not have other pressures, of underfunding and class sizes, but yes the workforce in the state sector is more skilled in general.

Mini pie.

I've spent time in a few different kinds of school including private.
They had small classes and in one mix we had a heroine.addict mother.
One girl traumatized because she didn't see her dad after a brutal divorce.
2 girls circumstance were very humble and their gp paid the fees.

Another was bullied by step dad and his DC had a cinnderlla situation going on and eventually she had to leave become step dad said it wasn't fair she was at private school.

And another lost a parent and was traumatized.

Some! Did have a normal life at that point.

I'm really not sure how anyone affording private school in anyway actually means they have a smooth and easy life?

I did say “in general”. Of course there will be some private school children with difficult home lives. I’m willing to bet it’s fewer than in state school however.

Some state schools. Not all.
Having the means to pay for private education doesn't preclude a chaotic home life, any more than not choosing private education means you 1) Can't afford it, or 2) Have a less stable home environment and less interest in your children's lives.
There are state schools and state schools.

Sorry doesn't really answer your Q but I think here is growing evidence that a child's confidence in their own abilities actually improves their academic attainments. That makes sense to me. I went to a state school but my parents who were both professionals were not pushy and just told us would all be fine. All 3 of us have professional jobs. Dh and I are academics and he had a v similar background and we take the same approach with our kids who are also at state schools. I don't stress about grades or homework, just praise achievements and try to be chilled when they worry about anything. I'm basically confident they will be fine because they are basically ok and put the effort in. I want them to absorb that message. I think independent schools may be good at conveying this as part of their ethos - you are all very able and we expect you to do well - and that becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. Obviously it does for highly selective schools who are only teaching students with a high level of aptitude.

I take the same approach teaching uni students - of course you will be good at this course, it is not difficult and you got the grades to get, here peppered with lots of micro-praise for good essays or contributions in class. Students suffer terribly from anxiety and we really need to role model the kind of confident mindset that will help them relax and thrive.

In other words I think indy schools can probably get this important thing right. But parents can also help to get it right and state schools can do it well too. I have a lot of respect for the schools my children attend both of which seem very nurturing and supportive of childrens self-esteem. That may be a better indicator of how well they support children to achieve their goals than overall grade profile - i.e. a school with a very mixed demographic but supportive ethos may help more children do well even if the overall grade profile is lower than a school with a very affluent demographic and demanding ethos, if some of the children there feel under pressure to succeed but lack the self-esteem necessary to do well.

I really think Mumsnet would benefit from an independent schools topic so we can actually have these conversations without them just turning into an anti private education bun fight.

I'm not going to change my mind about paying for my child's education just cos some strangers on the internet don't approve. But it would be lovely to discuss our circumstances etc without having to wade through the tutting.

What tutting? People have different views 🤷🏻‍♀️
I think you mean you'd like to have these conversations with people who agree with you. What's the actual point of chatting in an echo chamber?

A practical answer. DD went to a small, inexpensive private school from yrs 3-6 and it made a huge difference to her confidence. I think this happened for a few reasons:

• smaller class sizes - she was quiet and no trouble, so got ignored in class of 30, was seen in class of 18
• lots of presentations to the class - again easier in a smaller class
• encouraged to take part in poetry reading competition outside school every year
• clear expectations around talking to people on lunch table, helping smaller kids
• regular activities where they would work with Reception kids, giving them responsibility
• Science Fair where they had to present an experiment to parents and other pupils every year.

@Johnnysgirl

The post title literally starts with 'if your child attends independent school'

There are people in here announcing that sending your kids to independent school is 'wasting your cash'

It's not about echo chambers, it's about people getting the info they actually ask for.