What does job centre/society actually expect this woman to do?

[steppemum]

I support a lady (friendship through a charity) I'll change some details to make it less identifiable.

She has a son aged 5 and in school and so the job centre are giving her a lot of hassle to get into work. But I just cannot see how she is supposed to do this:

• she is a single mum. Her partner is not son's dad and doesn't live with her.


• she lives on a large council estate out of town. Very little work on the estate. 20 minute bus ride into town. Some work in town, mostly in shops (which I doubt she would get, she's not likely to get a customer facing job) most work is then a further 20 minutes on the bus from the bus station in town.


• there is no breakfast club or after school club, or holiday clubs at the school


• there are no childminders on the estate. The closest ones are about 1 mile away, and don't do school drop offs or pick ups


• she does have local family, but they are not willing to do any childcare, either before/after school, or in the holidays.


• she is only likely to get a minimum wage job as she has no qualifications.

So, she could only work day time, from about 9:30 - 2:00 in order to do school run, no weekends and she has no-one to look after her son in the holidays.

Job centre has told her she is being too fussy and she must be more flexible with timings.

Am I missing something here? I just don't see HOW she can get a job! She would like to work actually, but is also pretty scared about ending up with less money.

I was really hopeful that one positive side effect of Brexit would be more jobs for the least able again. Trolley collectors, washing up workers and so on. I can’t say it’s visibly happened yet.

The problem with care work is that most employers need people who can work unsocial hours to help people get up and go to bed. She might be able to get work supporting someone who funds their own care and has fewer support needs than people who get local authority care.

However, like child care, care work requires people who can cope with stress and unpredictability so I don't think it is an easy option for this person. Do these care homes need ancillary staff who do laundry, cleaning etc? That might be a better option.

What about Remploy? Could they help? This might be where having a diagnosis might be useful. Another option is time banking. This won't help money wise but could help her show she is trying to develop her skills.

However, I understand the OP's frustration. If this person got a job and it didn't work out, would she have to make a new Universal Credit application with all that entails? Even the process of getting a diagnosis has its negative side in terms of the whole convoluted process of being assessed. I agree that her best option is to keep applying for jobs so that she is not sanctioned.

Yes, maybe volunteering through the primary years and then a paid job once DC is in secondary school would be the most realistic outcome here. A long term voluntary role could be really good for confidence.

Has she ever been assessed for LCW/RA @steppemum ?

This 100%.

OP has posted maybe 12 times and it’s become a big reveal with more information shared.

*TaranThePigKeeper · 17/05/2022 12:08
If the OP had said from the outset that her friend is barely literate, has a chaotic lifestyle and probable learning difficulties, lives in a deprived area, and her partner was dead, the answers would have been very different, and I modified my second reply in the light of these important details.

But making the situation sound like a purely logistic issue at the outset of course gave rise to replies addressing only those aspects. Those of you jumping on the earlier replies should stop now.*

^^This

What tosh! She sounds impossibly stuck and it must feel awful. OP suspects the lady has a learning disability which isn't her fault. Living on a crappy estate with no provisions isn't her fault (gotta live somewhere and many councils won't offer you another house if you turn one down that they see as suitable).

School hours can be extremely limiting, especially when she'd have to factor in time after dropping off/getting to pick up.

My nephews' school has drop off between 8:35 and 8:45. Pick up is at 2:30, and if you're not there by 2:45 they start ringing to find out why. There's an after school club but it's only on once a week. Finishes at 4pm.

So say she works 40 mins away, walking. She couldn't start before 9:20 or so and she'd have to leave by 1:50 and to make the pick up time. So while it might look like she has six hours free, in reality she doesn't because her life is tied to school times!

The clues were there right at the start; The logistical problems were laid out (you can’t stick a kid in a cupboard for two hours until school starts) and “unlikely to get customer facing jobs” was pretty revealing. Posters are just choosing obliviousness.

I’ve just started my own business, and it’s not an easy option. You need to deal with all the paperwork, insurance, record keeping and marketing and also do the job your business was set up for! You need money to invest in whatever the tools of your trade are, and to pay for things like insurance and possibly advertising. And it can take ages to make a profit too, many small sole trader businesses rely on word of mouth to gain clients and that is not something that happens overnight. I’m glad I’m doing it but it isn’t some easy option, and I don’t think I could do it if I were a single parent with no childcare support.

That’s good re volunteering

You may be right re fob off from caring roles

Back of shop seems a good place to start, or factory work which is similar

Clues? Maybe your special skill is mind reading and that’s your privilege.

thank you
I said she had no qualifications and was unlikely to get a customer facing role.

I thought that would be an indication of what some issues were. People then suggested childminder etc.
For someone unlikely to get a customer facing role!

Sometimes there isn't actually a solution. I agree this woman is stuck. There's no magic fix. Best option imo is for the state to support her until her ds is at secondary school and can take himself there and back and be home alone safely while she works. Then she is probably best doing care work, shelf stacking etc. Oh and cast iron contraception so she doesn't have any more children.

Totally get it OP. I work with care leavers: dog walking and working in Starbucks? They wouldn't get past the interview.

There's no answer.

If the issue with the care shift work is childcare, would it be possible for her to pair up with another local mother in a similar position and tag-team between the shifts and the childcare?

Very difficult situation tho.

I didn't include it in the OP because well, having a low IQ isn't a reason not to get a job is it?
As to not including lack of support from dad in the OP, many single mums have no support from dad. That is hardly a shocking revelation!

Its the layering though, isn’t it? One of two issues might be overcome, with gumption. Three or more issues, and it becomes immovable, even with gumption/qualifications/support.

There are lots of people like this on society, they just aren't seen. They don't post on the internet either, because it's beyond their capabilities.

I did some volunteer work with an adult literacy scheme. One man in particular sticks in my mind. After a whole year, he was only able to read the tv guide in the paper. Very slowly. Anything more advanced was beyond him. I'm pretty sure he had undiagnosed learning difficulties. When he was young he had done labouring work, but now he was nearly 60 with a bad back and there was literally no manual job he was capable of, even without caring responsibilities. But he still had several years until retirement age. And wasn't disabled enough physically or mentally to qualify for disability benefits.

There were a number of other people with lots of challenges in addition to their poor literacy. It's very very difficult for them.

I do feel sorry her op-the JC arent helping saying be more flexible she cant phsyically be in two places at once!

When I left school there were jobs a plenty in factories for those that were not academically bright.

The made a a valuable contribution to society, usually had a job for life and often had relatives working for the same factory.

What do these people do today who have left school and don't have qualifications but also are not disabled in any way, just areas the op described, not very bright.

Please explain how she's meant to fit a job with a 40+ minute commute into between 8:40 and 2:30 say? (basing those times on my nephews' school!) @Viviennemary

Or you could do something radical and RTFT. Fuck me, some people really shouldn’t be allowed to post.

One entirely random suggestion OP. I will qualify for direct payments myself before long and I would absolutely hire someone like this to do cleaning or household tasks while I was WFH (probably not to hold keys). I don’t know how unusual that makes me (I’ve worked with similar client groups in the past), but might be worth looking into as local councils maintain lists of freelance workers available for Direct Payments work. If she had voluntary experience and references, that might be a flexible possibility.

I just find it endlessly interesting that people can exercise their empathy and imagination when motivated to do so, but not for this.

I think it's because people just assume that there is a certain minimum baseline for people in this country, because we all have access to state schools, the NHS, the benefits system etc. There is an assumption that everyone has certain basic opportunities to improve their circumstances if they are willing to work for it, because that's what people see in their own day to day experience.

What they don't see is the people who fall through the cracks. The people who have had traumatic and chaotic childhoods that have impacted massively on their development and their mental health. The people who have limited cognitive skills but don't qualify for any help and wouldn't know how to access it even if they did. The people who are suffering from long term health conditions but don't quite manage to tick all of the boxes for disability benefits. The people who are weighed down by caring responsibilities from which they get little or no respite. The people who are failed by our education system, by the NHS, by the welfare state, again and again and again. The people who really don't have the opportunities or the resources to change their circumstances, no matter how hard they try.

My dh started life in a very deprived community in a developing country. He always knew that people from backgrounds like his faced many more obstacles in life than those from more privileged backgrounds, but he was astonished to find that there are communities in the UK just like his, where the odds are hugely stacked against people from birth. It seemed unbelievable to him that this level of inequality would persist in a developed economy like ours. And it's shameful that it does, but I think the reason that it persists is that so many people are blissfully unaware of how difficult life is for some in our society.

It's so much easier to dismiss people as lazy or chaotic or unambitious than it is to try to tackle the huge structural inequality that pervades our society. Much easier to turn a blind eye and tell people to work harder.

OP - a school kitchen would be the best solution. She may come up against occasional obstacles (INSET/cleaning days) but overall she will work school hours and have holidays off. My mum has done this for over 35 years and she has literacy issues but has worked up to Supervisor and still works part time. More than one person she has worked with over the years has required someone to read Health & Safety training materials for them since they went online, but their literacy or numeracy levels have not impacted them being able to do the job.

My mum was looking around recently and she was only offered 14-16 hours which was not enough for her, but would work in the scenario of the woman you are supporting.

Some of these might not be national but worth looking at the following companies who often win school contracts:
Sodexho
Caterlink
Olive Dining
Innovative catering
Also try the local authority as some local authorities still manage themselves
Private schools also sometimes manage themselves

Specifically addressed to @Viviennemary and anyone else who thought they were being so clever.

This is a very unMN thing to say, and also very unlike me, but there are some people who are just unemployable these days and it sounds like your friend is one of them. I’ve no idea what the answer is