What does job centre/society actually expect this woman to do?

[steppemum]

I support a lady (friendship through a charity) I'll change some details to make it less identifiable.

She has a son aged 5 and in school and so the job centre are giving her a lot of hassle to get into work. But I just cannot see how she is supposed to do this:

• she is a single mum. Her partner is not son's dad and doesn't live with her.


• she lives on a large council estate out of town. Very little work on the estate. 20 minute bus ride into town. Some work in town, mostly in shops (which I doubt she would get, she's not likely to get a customer facing job) most work is then a further 20 minutes on the bus from the bus station in town.


• there is no breakfast club or after school club, or holiday clubs at the school


• there are no childminders on the estate. The closest ones are about 1 mile away, and don't do school drop offs or pick ups


• she does have local family, but they are not willing to do any childcare, either before/after school, or in the holidays.


• she is only likely to get a minimum wage job as she has no qualifications.

So, she could only work day time, from about 9:30 - 2:00 in order to do school run, no weekends and she has no-one to look after her son in the holidays.

Job centre has told her she is being too fussy and she must be more flexible with timings.

Am I missing something here? I just don't see HOW she can get a job! She would like to work actually, but is also pretty scared about ending up with less money.

What was your job?

If this woman is as incapable as you say she is OP, and presumaby there's a good reason why her older children live with their father, is no-one concerned how she is managing to parent her youngest child?

As far as employment is concerned, she doesn't sound equipped to do any sort of job.

Has she tried local cafes and restaurants for pot wash jobs? Lunchtime only. It would be within her capabilities and she would still qualify for UC.

Logically the best way around this would be for her to pair up with another parent in a similar position (and if this is a sink estate there will be some) and look at whether they could aproach the care agencies offering some sort of "job share" where one does the early part of the shift and one the later so that they can do school runs between them. If there is a TMO or similar might also be worth asking them to look at setting up some form of wrap around care as I cannot imagine that she is the only one on the estate in this position.

Most jobs I've seen advertised don't really offer 10 till 2 working pattens and you still have the holidays to work around as well.
I know thousands so it, but many have partners or family around to help out or can afford holiday clubs / school wrap around care and it sounds as if she hasn't any of these options available to her atm.
Midday assistant at a school might work but you still need to complete forms and go on courses ( many are now online to complete as well !)

Perhaps a local church or charity would be willing to give her a few hours per week doing cleaning or light admin, like stuffing envelopes with the understanding that she is trying to get her feet underneath her.

Not sure if this has been suggested already but what about a couple of nights a week she does work at the care home? Her mother could sleep over with the child and she would be back in the morning to take child to school and back?

I know a lot of people who do this so they don't have ti pay for childcare.

She could even do a Saturday night if her mum is willing to help with babysitting?

There are a lot of people like this op and I feel for her and I do admire her determination to look for work. I feel sorry for her because she’s been failed by society. I know I don’t know too much about her but sounds like she has children because it’s the only thing she knows what to do . She’s been failed by her parents and school and social services so never mind qualifications plenty of people leave school without any and do well in life but she has no actual social skills. Perhaps she has some sort of undiagnosed disability or perhaps it’s that’s she’s never been taught and simply doesn’t know how to . To me she should be on a back to work scheme that the government run to gain skills but again she may not be able due to childcare .I think this is the issue here as plenty of work unskilled people can do but she’s limited to what work she can do . The job centre are a joke and no use to her it seems . I sympathise and my advice is keep going.

Child minders have a limited number of places. You can't just use them as and when.

Spot on @MrsWooster .
@Bullsh “fund her lifestyle”? Lifestyle? Really? This is someone who isn’t the most capable person, and has tried and failed to get and keep a job.

I genuinely think that there are a number of people who cannot work when their children are pre-teens. It’s just not feasible due to intellect and circumstances. And I would have no problem with my taxes supporting this woman for another 7-8 years. And if I were like her, I’d want to be supported myself, because that’s the kind of society I wish to live in.

You mention older kids with another dad as well as a current partner. I hope she is using contraception (or insisting that he does) because yet another baby is no solution although I know it might seem like it to her, and I’d be tempted myself.

The distance to childminder and into town is completely reasonable.

the timings of school? Are there really no breakfast clubs? That seems crazy?

my own DH was very similar to this. No family near by, lived in a village. No jobs in town so wouldve been the city 30 miles away.
its hard

To be fair, any of us who work with this client group read between the lines quite easily.

She sounds vulnerable but without the obvious severe need that enables her to access proper supports. People like this fall through the cracks.

I have read only couple of pages so apologies if someone already had that idea.

can her mom help after work? Basically stay the night at hers with her child? She can pick up night shifts at a factory lets say. She could be back in time and go to sleep after dropping the child of to school.

my sister had a job at local catering company, after she dropped kids off she was there just helping to cut some veggies, prep whatever had to be prepped etc. and off in time to pick kids up.

There are opportunities like that but usually hard to find online or job centres, have to ask people around. Why not going to some local restaurant asking for similar thing? No harm trying and sometimes they might need additional person to do this kind of stuff.

maybe worth going to retirement estates/homes, put an ad out there or ask if any help with groceries/day to day things is needed.

dog walker? She could offer taking care of pets at home while owners are away and cant take them.

That childminder doesn’t do school runs anyway so no use.

many many schools don’t do breakfast clubs/after school clubs. It’s part of the issue that childcare is so patchy in this country.

Why is to so hard to believe that a school has no breakfast club ? I live in a city, my son’s school had no breakfast club, after school provision was limited to two days a week for one hour.
Fortunately for me my office was across the road - 2 mins walk.

People really need to try and understand the complexity of the issues this woman faces. Its not just one problem its layer upon layer of problems, which can be insurmountablef you have limited capacity.
As an adoptive parent, I can see my son’s birth mum reflected in this woman’s situation. Sadly she has never dug herself out of it.
At least this woman appears to be trying.

The reality is that the vast majority of long term unemployed people are unemployable but society doesnt want to accept this its a bit gaslighty that all these people if they just had some literacy lessons or got a diagnosis of something or had some therapy it would suddenly enable their organisational skills, social skills, remove their previous trauma/disregulation issues

I just want to point out another problem; unless things have improved recently, the Job Centre can cope if you either disabled or a single parent, but not both. I've had job centre staff express disbelief that I was both disabled and a single parent.

If you are disabled they send you to a specific group; you tell that group leader you are a single parent and they send you back to the job centre. The job centre sends you to the group for single parents, who can't cope with the fact you are disabled.

The OP explained that a cleaning job would be beyond this woman’s capabilities.

In a really long (and repetitive) thread like this it can be a good idea to read the OP’s posts. Just click on the “see all” on one of them.

being deceased is a barrier to that I’d imagine.

Its still happening in every town in the country

Her mother is not willing to babysit.

Laundry assistant /kitchen assistant in a care home?

Your friend has demonstrated that she has voluntary experience, does have life skills as she is raising her child, and is able to sort and organise goods donated to the charity shop-all of which are relevant to both these roles, which would be supervised by the home's cook or the senior.
Local authorities automatically shortlist for interview applicants who tick that they have a disability (she doesn't need a formal diagnosis to self-identify as disabled)
Hours tend to be 9 or 10am -2pm, councils often offer term-time only working and if not, she would be entitled to take unpaid parental leave (after 1 year):

Entitlement
Parental leave is unpaid. You’re entitled to 18 weeks’ leave for each child and adopted child, up to their 18th birthday.
The limit on how much parental leave each parent can take in a year is 4 weeks for each child (unless the employer agrees otherwise).
(GOV.UK)

This could be used in addition to her annual leave entitlement, thereby covering all the school holidays (although as mentioned in an earlier post, if her child is in receipt of free school meals, there will be free places on local school holiday play schemes and activities as well)
Universal Credit will be adjusted to support a fluctuating 4 weekly income.
The other companies I'm aware of where I live are Tesco and ASDA: both employ vulnerable adults with a range of learning disabilities, mental health support needs and autism, and the positions are tailored to meet the differing needs of these employees. None are full-time. It's definitely worth speaking (with your friend's consent)to their respective diversity or community champions to explain

Sounds like you are doing a great job supporting her and it sounds like she is trying. It is difficult. Keep going and keep encouraging her. When she does get a job, she can be massively proud of herself for overcoming all the obstacles.

Quite common in poor rural areas, I understand. My son and DIL are extremely concerned about what will happen when their daughter starts school. There are NO childminders in their area and the school does not have any sort of breakfast club or after school care. It just doesn't exist. Family support has been good but cannot continue indefinitely.