What does job centre/society actually expect this woman to do?

[steppemum]

I support a lady (friendship through a charity) I'll change some details to make it less identifiable.

She has a son aged 5 and in school and so the job centre are giving her a lot of hassle to get into work. But I just cannot see how she is supposed to do this:

• she is a single mum. Her partner is not son's dad and doesn't live with her.


• she lives on a large council estate out of town. Very little work on the estate. 20 minute bus ride into town. Some work in town, mostly in shops (which I doubt she would get, she's not likely to get a customer facing job) most work is then a further 20 minutes on the bus from the bus station in town.


• there is no breakfast club or after school club, or holiday clubs at the school


• there are no childminders on the estate. The closest ones are about 1 mile away, and don't do school drop offs or pick ups


• she does have local family, but they are not willing to do any childcare, either before/after school, or in the holidays.


• she is only likely to get a minimum wage job as she has no qualifications.

So, she could only work day time, from about 9:30 - 2:00 in order to do school run, no weekends and she has no-one to look after her son in the holidays.

Job centre has told her she is being too fussy and she must be more flexible with timings.

Am I missing something here? I just don't see HOW she can get a job! She would like to work actually, but is also pretty scared about ending up with less money.

Ok, so personally I think she sounds unemployable regardless of the childcare issue. That may sound harsh or nasty on my part but it happens. She’ll do what others do, go through the motions of looking for work (to keep the JC happy) and continue to claim benefits. Are you involved with CAP Op?

She'll never get a job as a TA because she has limited reading and writing skills.

I have a MA English (distinction) and I can't get a job as a TA!

I grew up on an estate in what sounds like similar circumstances. Back then it was different though, the local factories etc would send minibuses round to collect workers (which is what my mum did) and there was a much greater sense of community; everyone would help everyone else out, and that included dropping off and picking up children from school.

Nowadays there is the same expectation that everyone should work, but not the same support in place. The suggestions of getting a job as a TA is laughable. Due to the family friendly hours etc lots of people apply, including those who are over qualified.

It's a horrible place to be where realistically benefits are the only way forward even if you want to work- which despite what a lot of people think, many people would like to.

Does her local council have an adult work and skills department OP? Somewhere that could offer her further coaching and support as an adult with some additional needs?

Entitled much??
If you read the post properly , the school and local childminder do not do school runs. No she can not start a school club without any relevant qualifications.
The commute is only an issue in relation to it limiting her working day.

I don’t think she sounds unemployable - there are production line jobs that would suit her if only she had the childcare. It’s finding the right fit of job to circumstances and skills that makes it so difficult.

Volunteering in a local charity shop or at a local group, making teas, tidying up etc - it all counts as being proactive and they will be pleased she's doing something. It might give her some extra skills and confidence for later on when the childcare situation improves.

Actually @MarshaBradyo you're right 75% is probably a bit high. Still far too many though. A handful agreeing the system isn't fit for purpose but too many saying I did XYZ and laying blame on the woman, not enough asking why we don't have more support and how things can be this desperate still for someone in the trap.

Absolutely this.

Thank you for trying to help this woman OP, and for taking the time and feeling to understand her situation. Some people just have no idea or ability to imagine the barriers others face.

I think a lot of people don't understand how difficult childcare can be to source in some areas. We got caught out by this when we moved to our current location which is an area with a)lots of multi generational families and b) one major employer with working hours that start quite early but finish mid afternoon.
The fact that so many people have families who provide childcare means that there is far, far less commercial childcare and wraparound care available than you might expect, and the little that does exist is largely governed by the hours of Big Employer. Things open early for sure, but they also close early as the vast majority of kids can be picked up by 4.30 at the latest. Everyone said the same thing - sorry not enough customers to make what you want cost effective for us.
Ok, for us it was inconvenient but not the end of the world. We had money for nanny shares, private school with longer hours etc, and my DH has quite a lot of flexibility in his working hours so we managed ok in the end. But for someone on a low income who didn't have family support, finding childcare in our area would be a nightmare and I can well believe it would be a significant barrier to finding work for some - even if they could afford it.

She needs to get some more education/training I think to give her more options. Maybe as an estate they should ask the local school about starting childcare before and after. Also UC wil pay up to 85 percent of the childcare costs if she is working.

I have a relative very similar to this, and her solution was to have a child every 5 years or so to maximise the years that she can claim benefits. The 3 child rule obviously scuppered this and she is being pushed to get a job. The reality is nobody will employ her. Not sure what the next steps are tbh.

What sort of job would this lady actually like to do?

It seems the days of ‘mums’ being TAs is gone, it won’t be long before they’ll be asking for degrees before you can be a TA it seems, if they don’t already.

What about approaching the local branch of Timpsons to see if they have any positions available? I know they are high on improving social mobility, so they may be able to offer school-based hours and/or creating a job with training and progression. It could be worth sending in a speculative letter if you have one nearby? I know in our town, there are Timpsons branches at all the local supermarkets, as well as one in the town centre

If you look at families information service they will tell you any childcare that will pick up/drop off from school. Just in case there's one that's not on the estate but close enough to work. The only other thought I had was dinner lady or kitchen worker in a school. I've done both dinner lady was 1145-115. And kitchen was 1030-130. Could you appeal to care company on her behalf?

@AffIt AffIt

Having read the full thread, I understand what the OP is saying about her friend / mentee and the fact is that some people, for whatever reason, are just not able to participate in the world of employment. They're just not.
I am a highly educated, higher-rate tax-paying senior professional with three degrees and all the rest of that fuckery and IMO, it's my job in society - with all my privilege and benefits and gifts and advantages and what have you - to look after people like this.
This is literally what civic society and the benefit state is for and this is why I am a socialist.
My proviso here - my 'dog in the fight' in the social contract - is that this woman's child / children is / are supported sufficiently so that cycles don't repeat themselves

Well said. Agree with this

She does seem to have learning difficulties and if she can't manage day to day functions without hand holding then she has mental health problems as well. I would recommend you help her with a PIP form. Only you know her situation but since she can't even read instructions, do simple life management, organise herself or follow social cues then it might an option worth exploring. She doesn't need a diagnosis to be eligible and if she is eligible then she wouldn't have to look for a job.

It sounds like your friend has some LDs, and perhaps should be entitled to more help, rather than them badgering her to get a job. Are you officially appointed to support her op, if so by whom? I suggest you going to the job centre and explaining what you have here and ask them for their realistic solutions.

I feel like there’s still some info missing, or not quite right. Surely someone who struggles with everyday life to this extent has come to the attention of SS/CAMHS/NHS. It is rare for someone to go through the regular school system and be unable to read or write.

Most of the people who are suggesting that the lady can work or commute are forgetting that it is easy for people with normal cognitive ability but for some people even daily ie management can be hard. Doesn't mean that they don't want to, it's just that they can't. People like this is why we have a social system and these people need support.

Great post. The lack of empathy and smug ‘If I can do so should you’ when the circumstances are very different is disheartening.

So you had childcare. You were also doing jobs that aren't suitable for this woman. How is your story relevant? Also, how is mobile hairdressing a job that requires zero skills?

It is rare for someone to go through the regular school system and be unable to read or write.

You'd be surprised.

Roughly one in six adults in the UK have literacy skills equal to those of an 11-year-old in full-time education. About one in eight have skills similar to a seven-year-old, and about one in 12 are effectively functionally illiterate.

Functional illiteracy is a massive problem in this country and massively overlooked.

Yes, this is what struck me. A few decades ago there would be plenty of factory/ industrial work for people with limited education/ abilities. Repetitive and dull work, but a decent wage and as you say, often friends and family there. My MIL (a former teacher) used to refer to some of the pupils at what was known as a ‘sink school’ at the time as being ‘life’s manual labourers’ - not in an unkind way, just an acknowledgment that some people did not have the capacity to do other types of jobs.

Society needs to understand that for some people their contribution to society will not be financial or economic but that doesn’t mean she has nothing to contribute
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This is so important, and beautiful, and true.