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Original poster

WWYD about maternity appts and working PT?

30 replies

rickandmorts · 10/05/2022 14:07

Hi,

I work 3 or 4 days a week depending on my rota and I've had a midwife and an ultrasound appt fall on days I'm working. My midwife said I'm entitled to paid time off for them and shouldn't have to change my shifts. But I'm being swapped to days I'm not working, for example if an ultrasound falls on a Friday I'm working they're swapping me to work a day that I'm off that week so I can have Friday off for the appointment.

Maternity action says :

'How much time off am I allowed to take for my antenatal appointments?

You are entitled to ‘reasonable’ paid time off for your appointments, as well as travelling and waiting time.
You should not be asked to arrange your appointments outside working hours or to make up the time, although you should minimise disruption to your working hours as much as possible. If you work part-time you should try to arrange your appointments on non-working days but if that is not possible, your employer must allow you paid time off.'

Midwife has said I can't change appts and I have to attend the ones given to me. Part of me thinks as I'm not working full time it's okay to swap my days so I can attend them but after seeing what that website says, are work taking the piss? If you worked part time would you be happy to swap your days off to attend appointments? Work are not very clued up on this kind of thing, I work in a manual job and had to put pressure on them to even do my risk assessment. Advice would be appreciated.

OP posts:
Cantgetausername87 · 10/05/2022 14:21

Firstly congratulations! Your work are being completely out of line here they MUST give you paid time off for all of your maternity appointments.
Do you have a HR team? It may be worth flagging to them or your line manager. I think the .gov website has information too as it sounds like they are clueless and may need it from an 'official' site.
I honestly find it scary that working practices like this still exist! Good luck x

Findahouse21 · 10/05/2022 14:23

I tried to manage mine in proportion with my working hours, so if working 50% of full time hours then I would do 50% in my time, 50% in work time. That was for planned and negotiable appointments and with an employer thay treated me relatively well so wanted to return the favour, not necessarily the legal standpoint

nearlyspringyay · 10/05/2022 14:24

You are entitled to paid time off for appointments. If the appointments fall on NWD that's fine but if they do, then your employer has to suck it up.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about these subjects:

Employment advice Families
ChickpeaPie · 10/05/2022 14:25

If I was part time I would just swap my days

summerlovinvibes · 10/05/2022 14:28

I work 3 days a week and currently pregnant with my second. Issue I have is that I only have childcare on work days, therefore find appointments on days off difficult as am not always allowed to take my daughter with me. My work are very accommodating and basically just give me any time off that I ask for, so I mostly leave my appointments on work days and only occasionally do appointments on days off if it's just a quick MW check where I can take my DD with me.

stuntbubbles · 10/05/2022 14:30

I’m part time, 3 days a week, set days. NHS appointments are “get what you’re given” really so it’s rarely an option to arrange them for non-working days. There was space on the referral form to specify days I couldn’t do, but on my non-working days I’m with DD, ergo I can’t do an appointment: so during working hours it is.

Your work are taking the piss. They should enable you to go to the appointment on a working day, not reshuffle your rota.

Original poster
rickandmorts · 10/05/2022 14:39

Cantgetausername87 · 10/05/2022 14:21

Firstly congratulations! Your work are being completely out of line here they MUST give you paid time off for all of your maternity appointments.
Do you have a HR team? It may be worth flagging to them or your line manager. I think the .gov website has information too as it sounds like they are clueless and may need it from an 'official' site.
I honestly find it scary that working practices like this still exist! Good luck x

Thank you! We are small (around 20 employees) but have a HR person so will talk to them. I don't have a line manager as we are all 'equal'. It is really shit, I was being expected to lift really heavy loads and when I contacted my midwife and told them I couldn't lift that much on her advice they reluctantly did me a risk assessment but it's really brief. I'm worried they'll think I'm being precious. Thank you x

OP posts:
Original poster
rickandmorts · 10/05/2022 14:41

Findahouse21 · 10/05/2022 14:23

I tried to manage mine in proportion with my working hours, so if working 50% of full time hours then I would do 50% in my time, 50% in work time. That was for planned and negotiable appointments and with an employer thay treated me relatively well so wanted to return the favour, not necessarily the legal standpoint

Okay that is useful to know thank you. They have treated me well until this point but I can see a definite shift in attitude. My team is short staffed and they are worried about the immediate pressure put on the others if I have time off as we struggle for cover anyway. I realise this isn't my fault but I don't want to create too much of a hostile environment until I leave.

OP posts:
Menora · 10/05/2022 14:42

I don’t think they are being unreasonable as they are accommodating you and not penalising you. They are not making you work more hours or making you change your appts.

But I see your view because It is a law. This is to protect women who work full time or have childcare responsibilities and cannot change hours or appointments to make sure they are not penalised. yes you are entitled to paid time off although if it falls in the middle of a day it’s not unreasonable to come to a compromise to WFH or adjust hours. The word reasonable protects both parties. You can speak to HR, if it is affecting you with other matters such as childcare and is causing you problems, or causing you to work extra hours. I would consider if they are trying to reasonably help you whilst keeping their business operating. It’s up to you if you talk to HR about whether you want to refuse the shift swaps. Legally you can although I don’t think they are being unreasonable or unlawful.

rainbowandglitter · 10/05/2022 14:42

I'd swap my days but I don't have childcare that would need swapping around - not sure if that's an issue for you?

Original poster
rickandmorts · 10/05/2022 14:42

nearlyspringyay · 10/05/2022 14:24

You are entitled to paid time off for appointments. If the appointments fall on NWD that's fine but if they do, then your employer has to suck it up.

They've already swapped 2 of my shifts so might just leave them but will have a chat to HR this week and see what they say. There was just an expectation that I'd swap my days as I only work 3 or 4 days a week. I feel really anxious about bringing this up!

OP posts:
Original poster
rickandmorts · 10/05/2022 14:43

ChickpeaPie · 10/05/2022 14:25

If I was part time I would just swap my days

This is why I don't know if I'm being unreasonable? And if I need to be flexible as I'm not working full time?

OP posts:
Whatelsecouldibecalled · 10/05/2022 14:43

I work part time. I don't change my appointments as when I am not working I look after my toddler and can't take my toddler to my appointments.

Original poster
rickandmorts · 10/05/2022 14:44

summerlovinvibes · 10/05/2022 14:28

I work 3 days a week and currently pregnant with my second. Issue I have is that I only have childcare on work days, therefore find appointments on days off difficult as am not always allowed to take my daughter with me. My work are very accommodating and basically just give me any time off that I ask for, so I mostly leave my appointments on work days and only occasionally do appointments on days off if it's just a quick MW check where I can take my DD with me.

That sounds very fair and your work sound nice!

OP posts:
Original poster
rickandmorts · 10/05/2022 14:46

stuntbubbles · 10/05/2022 14:30

I’m part time, 3 days a week, set days. NHS appointments are “get what you’re given” really so it’s rarely an option to arrange them for non-working days. There was space on the referral form to specify days I couldn’t do, but on my non-working days I’m with DD, ergo I can’t do an appointment: so during working hours it is.

Your work are taking the piss. They should enable you to go to the appointment on a working day, not reshuffle your rota.

Yeah I tried and can't rearrange them. I just don't know whether I should be swapping and being flexible or if I need to put my foot down. I'm really torn!

OP posts:
Original poster
rickandmorts · 10/05/2022 14:49

Menora · 10/05/2022 14:42

I don’t think they are being unreasonable as they are accommodating you and not penalising you. They are not making you work more hours or making you change your appts.

But I see your view because It is a law. This is to protect women who work full time or have childcare responsibilities and cannot change hours or appointments to make sure they are not penalised. yes you are entitled to paid time off although if it falls in the middle of a day it’s not unreasonable to come to a compromise to WFH or adjust hours. The word reasonable protects both parties. You can speak to HR, if it is affecting you with other matters such as childcare and is causing you problems, or causing you to work extra hours. I would consider if they are trying to reasonably help you whilst keeping their business operating. It’s up to you if you talk to HR about whether you want to refuse the shift swaps. Legally you can although I don’t think they are being unreasonable or unlawful.

Thank you, that is really helpful! I don't want to go the hard line with them as I may need to save that for later on when I need more breaks/ to sit down and to be asked to be taken off earlies due to not coping. It's a really physical job. So don't want to make too many demands now. WFH not an option so would have to swap shifts. I don't have childcare but have loads of other responsibilities outside work that probably take up as much time, if not more than childcare would. But totally understand why the protections are there.

OP posts:
Original poster
rickandmorts · 10/05/2022 14:51

rainbowandglitter · 10/05/2022 14:42

I'd swap my days but I don't have childcare that would need swapping around - not sure if that's an issue for you?

No childcare commitments but I have a smallholding with loads of animals (it's a full time job in itself haha!) so I'm always pushed for time as looking after them takes up a huge amount of my time. I'm very naively hoping a baby fits in fine with this 🙄

OP posts:
stuntbubbles · 10/05/2022 14:56

I don’t think you need to save the hard line for future things, OP: it’s your right to ask for reasonable adjustments in pregnancy, whether that’s breaks or sitting down, you don’t have to use those rights as a bargaining chip to exercise your other right to paid time off for appointments. Clearly you can’t take the appointments on your non-work days because of the animals. So go to HR and ask that you stop being re-rotad whenever you have appointments. There’ll only be more appointments as pregnancy ramps up – at some point they’ll have to stop shuffling you around!

Menora · 10/05/2022 17:17

I don’t think you need a hard line either. Just say to them you will try to book in your own time where possible, and would prefer not to change shifts so frequently, I’m sure there is a compromise in there somewhere. Without assuming the worst of them, they might just need to update themselves on the law

LovelyLovelyWarmCoffee · 10/05/2022 20:29

rickandmorts · 10/05/2022 14:51

No childcare commitments but I have a smallholding with loads of animals (it's a full time job in itself haha!) so I'm always pushed for time as looking after them takes up a huge amount of my time. I'm very naively hoping a baby fits in fine with this 🙄

Show quote history

I find your answer slightly U. Hear me out, you are saying that you don’t want the pregnancy appointment to encroach on your free time and would prefer for your employer to pay you while you attend.
The law is there in spirit to protect full time employees or part time employees who can’t attend when they are not working due for example to childcare, a second job, etc. In your case it is not that you can’t but you won’t.

Personally, as a working woman I resent this attitude as this is why companies are reluctant to hire mothers or young women. The law is there to protect us from discrimination, in your case it doesn’t sound like discrimination. I imagine they would also ask to swap your shifts if you had recurring non-pregnancy appointments.

Original poster
rickandmorts · 10/05/2022 22:10

LovelyLovelyWarmCoffee · 10/05/2022 20:29

I find your answer slightly U. Hear me out, you are saying that you don’t want the pregnancy appointment to encroach on your free time and would prefer for your employer to pay you while you attend.
The law is there in spirit to protect full time employees or part time employees who can’t attend when they are not working due for example to childcare, a second job, etc. In your case it is not that you can’t but you won’t.

Personally, as a working woman I resent this attitude as this is why companies are reluctant to hire mothers or young women. The law is there to protect us from discrimination, in your case it doesn’t sound like discrimination. I imagine they would also ask to swap your shifts if you had recurring non-pregnancy appointments.

Show quote history

Never said I don't want it to encroach on my free time, I was asking about the legality of them swapping my days off. I've had my animals a lot longer than I've had that job and they will always be my priority, I think until you've had livestock and the commitment they entail you can't understand the responsibility you have to them. In a way, my employed job is a second job to my animals. Of course I'd be happy to swap my shifts (and do very frequently) for recurring non-pregnancy appointments, as they are not protected by law 🤔

OP posts:
ToastedCrumpetwithCheese · 10/05/2022 22:27

I think I'd talk to HR about your manager/team changing your shifts without discussion rather than them asking you to because they're busy/tight deadline/short staffed etc. I'd be hacked off at the presumption. I would also be concerned if they're doing this without discussion now, what will they do when you have the baby and something comes up (e.g. sick child) and you don't have childcare on a different day when they just change it.

IKnewPrufrockBeforeHeGotFamous · 10/05/2022 22:32

I think you’d be taking the piss if you complained about having your days swapped to ensure your appointments don’t take up ‘your’ time rather than work time

EatingToast · 10/05/2022 22:38

Sounds like you just need to have a discussion with them. I was working full time but had Thursday off because I worked Sundays. I rearranged appointments to Thursday where I could and swapped days where that wasn't possible. Everyone was fully aware I could have taken paid time off if I had wanted to it was just good manners from my point of view to compromise where I could. They went out of their way to make life easier for me throughout my pregnancy and we have a good working relationship because of the effort made on both sides.

kitcat15 · 10/05/2022 22:40

ChickpeaPie · 10/05/2022 14:25

If I was part time I would just swap my days

Why on earth would you do that? 🙄