Please talk to me about cultural capital...

[breakdown19]

What's important?
This thread has been initiated by the fact that a friend is off to an exhibition today while DH and I are catching up on work (both self employed)
It made me wonder whether we are doing enough for our kids.
NB I have deliberately started this in chat not AIBU as not really looking for a fight.

Agree with Greek myths & Shakespeare for kids type books - Usborne do loads. Horrible Histories is excellent for giving them the broad sweep of European history though a bit too much focus on the Curriculum Bits (Egyptians, Tudors, Victorians). Bible stories (from the story side not the faith side).

Then you can start pointing out connections between things in our everyday life and older cultural references that they include. Iike the Lion King is Hamlet, etc etc.

Go to national trust or similar houses and look at art and architecture or garden design and try and explain what's going on as you see it related to history. I appreciate this is the most Mumsnet thing to say ever but my 7 year old understands that the 18th century fashion was to sort of control nature and go for symmetry, the Victorians harked back to medieval styles, etc etc, by looking just at design and houses and pictures we come across.

And you can link it to musical styles as well.

I mean this is basically what the Grand Tour was, setting today's fashion in its cultural context. (And rich boys shagging and drinking their way round...).

Then there is scientific and mathematical history and discovery, agriculture, the seasons... yesterday we saw some rhubarb growing and had a good chat about "the hungry gap" and how people in the past had to eat old wrinkly veg from last year until April when the new things start ripening.

In summary I think cultural capital is about linking what we do now as a society to the reasons and stories behind it - and frankly knowing which cultural things have been considered as high status. And museums etc are really good examples of this but not the whole story.

For 11 and 13 year olds an easy start would be watching the news and discussing the stories.

I actually wouldn't let your 11yr old watch the news right now, nor your 13yr old if they are very sensitive. Dead bodies in Ukraine and the reporting of the war is likely to really frighten them. Perhaps order children's newspapers instead weekly and discuss the contents.

Newsround is a safe option.

The Week Junior is good too and you can often get it on a deal

@EthicalNonMahogany I always liked the Marcia Williams books for breadth and encountering new ideas - I think we had every single one, from Shakespeare, Indian myths, Dickens stories, Bible stories, King Arthur, the Iliad and the Odyssey, inspirational women of history, famous inventors... and the comic book style really kept my DSs interested! www.marciawilliams.co.uk/books/

We have the Week Junior, Aquila, and sometimes First News as well as watching Newsround at school.

We get the adult version of The Week and in the last year or so neither DH nor I get a look in until DS1 (9) has browsed it…he started just reading about the sport (cricket mad) but now takes in the science page and other things at random. If you can afford it I’d recommend it massively.

Otherwise it’s often as simple as saying ‘do you know why we say that?’ when a pop song references something (preferably ‘Heathcliffe, it’s Cathy, I’ve come home’ rather than me, aged 8, demanding of my mother in a trendy clothing shop exactly ‘who is that old man in the book by Nabrakov?’) or when they read something and don’t get the wider context.

But yes to never limiting their aspirations to sample things…I said to someone recently that DM was taking DS1 to the theatre (£10 tickets to see Much Ado About Nothing) and she looked shocked and said she wouldn’t bother because her kids wouldn’t never like it. How do you know if you don’t try?

Also - for anyone like me who was a book worm and has children who refuse to read - audiobooks are great. We have an audible subscription so even though I struggle to get mine to read for pleasure they are familiar with Greek Myths, many childrens classics, and non fiction as well.

Many libraries have audio books as part of their membership now so you can also access many at low/no cost.

One very small thing that my ds likes to do is watch Catchphrase. He also has a Catchphrase card game. We have had lots of discussions about where certain phrases come from. He loves it and has learnt a lot through it.

I feel embarrassed that I have never heard of cultural capital. However I had parents with very very limited spare money and absolutely working class but they tried to give us experiences and I have done the same with my family. I can only remember my parents taking me to the cinema twice, however they would save for an annual theatre trip using any offers they could get. We went to walks , museums , art galleries. Would drive to london to walk around and see the sights. Or other tourist attractions.

I do I think lots of things with my children but mainly because I enjoy it and want to share it with them. We try and go to the theatre a couple of times a year. Plan trips to museums. National trust members so visit lots of places with a picnic, I love a castle trip. My husband and I don't go out as a couple, but we do go for meals with the children. Anything from a pizza, burger to a Michelin star pub. We are lucky that we have disposable income, but I really do always look for offers, discounts l, vouchers etc as I always think the less I spend the more we can do

I don't know what the UK news is like, but we're in France and we let our 8 and 10 year olds watch the headlines (never gruesome images) then the first 5 or 10 minutes of reports.

This is only when we've first scanned the news to check for major stories (we didn't let them watch for weeks when the war started but explained the war to them instead. We also switch it off if there is talk about murder, rape etc.).

They have been fascinated by lots of stories from around the world: natural disasters, political events, scientific breakthroughs etc. They are young but we have talked loads about Brexit (it directly affects us), climate change, the French election, racism, poverty, cost of living (leading to interesting conversations on living on a budget)...

It's a free way to get them to see beyond their daily bubble, and the only effort on our part is to be aware of potentially upsetting subjects, and be available for questions and discussions.

Cultural capital is just knowledge that can be leveraged among a particular social group to flag your worth. I'm not sure that exposure to high arts is going to cut it for your children's peers.

It really mainly comes down to books. The two biggest indicators of educational success are the education level of the mother and the number of books in the house.

These threads always descend into parents boasting about the many varied cultural events they take their children to. I suspect that cultural capital may well be correlated with educational success rather than causitive. In reality the importance of different types of cultural capital will vary with the industry. To not know the basics of Shakespeare will be career death in the theatre but will make no difference in most STEM careers and vice versa for the second law of thermodynamics, England is still the land of two cultures.

I'd say try not to force it down like a dose of cod liver oil, on the basis that it's good for you even if you don't like it. It's great to try something new, that you're not sure you or the dcs will like, but do it in a spirit of exploration and be willing to laugh and say it's not for you.

I wouldn't rule out bribery of the "20 minutes in this museum and then we'll get an ice-cream" variety. At least it creates positive associations and they might like it despite themselves.

Having gone to an elite-ish (my country's equivalent of Oxford) university from a background which was very working class in many ways I'd agree that cultural capital I definitely a thing. I was lucky in that I was a voracious reader & had a few relatives who read widely themselves, so I could pass pretty easily (honestly think 'passing' is a good way to think of it), but there were a whole range of random skills and experiences that I just didn't have. To take one silly experience, I'd never dealt with more complicated cutlery arrangements or eaten in a waiter/waitress service restaurant. I couldn't (still can't) swim or cycle or play a musical instrument. I still think some of the Shakespeare-for-babies aspirational British parenting stuff is a bit odd and OTT though! Mostly I just encourage my kids to read, try new things and have a decent range of interests i.e. they're both learning musical instruments because I massively regret never having had the opportunity (they do also enjoy it - please don't force DC to do stuff they hate). We try to do a week abroad most normal summers and I encourage them not find language-learning scary (defo a a big issue for Brits IME). But we enjoy lots of the kind of fun 'trashy' popular culture stuff the Shakespeare-for-babies types would no doubt hate. I think in the 21st century the 'popular' / 'elite' culture division is much less important than it was in the past. The best thing is to be at ease in both worlds & everywhere in between & have a good range of things you enjoy.

On subject of not forcing stuff, we don't do art galleries because the DC don't enjoy them. Likewise I've never bothered much with theatre, because I - horror - just don't actually enjoy it that much. Give me a straight choice between Hamlet & a Star Wars movie & I'll pick the latter TBH. Whereas I love reading pretentious novels & absolutely anything history-related. Some middle class Brits seem to feel a certain pressure to do things they or their families don't really enjoy because it's 'elite' culture. Culture should never be viewed as some social equivalent of 'eating your vegetables'. Try a wide range of stuff but focus on what you enjoy.

Lots of ideas here.
I think it's important to have children who can think, who can voice an opinion, who are not afraid of discussion. It's great if they already know about the Ancient Greeks or Egyptians or whatever, but they need to be able to make connections, to say "Oh yes, that's a bit like xxx, I wonder those if those civilisations were in contact with each other because they did x,y & z in a similar way."
I notice the difference in attainment with children I 've taught in schools in disadvantaged areas and I think part of it is them knowing that their opinion is important and valued, that what they think matters, that they are expected to have preferences. Talking to children is so important, whether it's about the film you've just seen, the story they've just read, asking them why they like or don't like something, and what do they think was meant by x. The children lacking in cultural capital find it hard to express or even know what they think.

It really mainly comes down to books. The two biggest indicators of educational success are the education level of the mother and the number of books in the house.
'Freakonomics': What Makes a Perfect Parent? - that's what the freaknoics people found in US - though they think number of books probably related to education level of parents as they didn't have to be read.

In my life reading opened many doors and I learnt much outside of my actual experiences but so did radio 4, new programs and good TV documentaries – I learnt my Greek myth through Tony Robinson doing a children TV thing and reading books my children it’s been mix of book and a you tuber. Though we did have some museums/ big house trips as well in my childhood.

I think these days audio books, even some YouTube channels - there are load of craft/history ones also help with wider knowledge. Even games can spark interest as PP said Minecraft got one of mine very interested in a bit in historical architecture and some of the more engineering aspects.

Other thing I think is important is possible modelling behaviour of having an interest in the world - watching GP, DP watching time team or art documentaries, read books/magazines or learnt new crafts/ enjoy a historical site .

I'm currently withing BBC program about UK art though time - they're very good with context and dropping information - last documenatry I watched with eldest was a while ago but was makeup through history. Though since covid even DH and I and watching less TV and our now teens spend less time watching with us when we do.

Is there anything in this relating to elections and polling? Out area saw a below 35% turnout and wondering what that means for the future generation.

Ironically, I'd never heard of cultural capital until ds' teacher told me he had plenty of it.

When I thought about it, I guess he's pretty well travelled for his age, has been to lots of gigs, we've done museums, theatre trips, sporting fixtures here and while on holiday. We eat out a lot and he's exposed to lots of public figures and unusual situations due to his dads job.

That said, he would never choose to read for pleasure, much to my disappointment.

In the interests of building cultural capital, this website emails a chapter a day from Dracula, corresponding to the date it was written in Jonathan Harker's diary (starting a few days ago so there's a bit of catching up to do). So it's a good and fun way to read Dracula in bitesize pieces and there are plenty of memes around for each day to make it easily digestible.

draculadaily.substack.com/about

I think it's good for children (people in general) to be comfortable in as many situations as possible.

It's hard in Covid times, but I have never been afraid of hospitals, for example, as I had to visit elderly relatives as a child, and had to go quite a lot myself, so stroll in fairly confidently even if I need medical attention.

I'd take them to church, maybe several, even if you don't believe, occasionally. It will make attending a funeral, or perhaps a wedding, less daunting if they've been through the door and seen what goes on.

Also to court - trials are public in England. A visit to the Old Bailey, preferably the older one, is very interesting and gives real insight into the expected behaviour, even down to an absolute ban on mobile phones. Better for older DC, say mid-teens. The staff member directed us to the most interesting trial and explained how to enter (quietly, difficult as the old wood floor creaks!).

Another for secondary age would be parliament. Contact your MP who will arrange for you to get in. It's popular, so you need to apply months in advance, specially to hit a time when it's sitting but the DC aren't in school.

The more DC are used to being in these formal settings, the more confident they will be in approaching the next one.

Another good visit is the Cast Room at the Victoria and Albert museum. Partly to see the items, but partly to explore the concept that in Victorian times the average member of the public had no chance of seeing the original Trajan's column or the facade of Santiago de Compostela Cathedral, etc, etc, and how amazed they must have been to see the copies. We now have Google to give us information about why things are considered important.

I agree with experiencing life beyond their bubble.

We once took our brownies on a train. Literally dropped off at the train station, caught the train, got off partway down the line and got the next one home for pick up. They loved it and for some it was their first train journey. From our neighbourhood there is little point in catching the train unless you're planning a longer city to city journey which is quite specific.

Middle class life can be quite constrained and limited with everything formally organised and children can miss out on how things are done. Informal, spontaneous, basic experiences can go a long way if they tend not to be a part of everyday life. (NT 50 things to do before 11¾ is a great list of simple experiences)

Talking about what you do is really important. Little things like features/ observations on a journey, there's a lot of added value in that. You don't have to know everything. Questioning and looking things up is valuable.

While reading is brilliant and so potent in the way it uses imagination, podcasts/ audio books/ documentaries/ youtube etc can also be important, accessible sources of information, especially if reading doesn't come naturally (I have DCs with dyslexia and reading is hard work for them)

I'm not knocking "higher culture", it has its place, it's just life is broader than that. Things have more meaning when children (or anyone else) understand their context. Play to their interests and strengths. Don't just do something because it ranks well on a tick list, especially if it's really not your child's kind of thing. Try things, but do it at the child's pace, sometimes a taster is enough.

This is why I find the English school system so narrowing. DD is in Y10 and lost geography, art, music and RE permanently due to the GSCE options selection.

Being 14 and loosing out on being taught about this is in my opinion too limiting. Luckily she has parents who are talking about topics a lot at the dining room table, ensure she reads the news and dragging her to exhibitions and days out trying to widen her view on the world.

Lots of parents aren't in a position to do it, so I fear children do miss out. On the other hand, schools can cover topics parents may not. For example I do hate poetry, I just can't find any joy in it. But DD did it in Autumn term and while not the biggest fan, found interest in reading something outside her comfort zone. It led to several discussions and even taught DH and me a bit.

This is amazing, thank you!