do we manufature food to cook at 180 degrees?

[Musingsofthemind]

or is 180 degrees just the most common temperature for food to cook at? (or, arguably 200)
And who decides when it is "done"?
Back in the fire days, for example, a time would have been set to consider it "done" in some sense i.e. not charred on the outside and raw in the middle. Or a distance kept from the fire to make sure the above didn't happen.
But "done" is subjective - think steak for example.

So do we say this long at 180 as its the most common setting, or we know it is 180 so needs this long?

(if this makes sense, typing it out as DC asks it and I cant answer)

And how did we choose 180?

180° is a moderate oven and it's going to quickly cook/reheat many things without burning them to a crisp or not being hot enough.

Have you never experimented with oven temp when you're re-heating stuff? From experience, I know that around 170°-180° offers perfect temp for re-heating thoroughly without burning.

I would imagine that the 180° is about getting the food to a temperature hot enough to kill bacteria/viruses. The degree of doneness, especially for steak, is a preference. There is less risk of bacteria in the centre of a steak because it's not exposed, that's why you should always cook mince all the way through. Although no idea why that doesn't hold true for steak tartare.
I've just realised I've no idea what the answer to the actual question is 😆

I was wondering something similar to this earlier. I’m staying in a holiday cottage with an Aga, and it just occurred to me that you can’t set the oven temperature. Maybe the 180 thing is to do with that? That before cookers we had ranges which were just ‘very hot’ and ‘less hot’

yes, fires and ranges were 'very hot' or 'less hot'

interesting re the bacteria. That might be a reason.

So I wonder, on the instructions they write, there is a kitchen somewhere that goes right, this looks done, what did we do? And did they set the time first, lets's whack it on for 5 minutes? or the temp first, let's try 180 and see how long it takes. And again, a certain subjectiveness comes into play re, for example, the crispiness of fries?

And do they do that, go, it looks done, then test for bacteria?? If there is some, they take it up to 200? Or do they cook for longer?

I realise we are not making any sense!

Hone economists do all that kind of stuff. Good recipe book writers, the producers of ready prepared foods, and supermarkets all employ home economists.

yes but whats first? temp or time? IYSWIM

Bumping this as DC still wanging on about it!

200°C is the temperature at the edge of a fire, so 160-180° is probably the temperature of a pot above a fire or a space (oven) with a fire under. I guess we never really changed cooking style with electric and gas!

Back in the 1980s, Saint Delia devoted all her waking hours to working out the ideal cooking temperatures and timings for every dish known to (wo-)man.

Her findings were published in her Complete Cookery Course and many subsequent volumes.

So now you know! 🤗

It's convenience.

There are a small number of foods that need very, very, very specific cooking times and temperatures. Not many of them are cooked in the oven (though something like a baked custard in a bain marie might be). Even fewer of them are made as convenience foods that can be reheated.

Most foods aren't that fussy. You could cook it for 20 minutes at 180 or 18 minutes at 190 or 25 minutes at 160 and it'd still be perfectly fine. Indeed most domestic ovens aren't super accurate about time.

I think 180 just happens to correspond to one of the middle gas marks, from back when gas was much more common. Gas ovens are pretty inaccurate compared to electric, so you're just talking (IIRC) 6 rough points between 'only just warm' and 'really hot'.

I bought a food thermometer, it’s life changing. It means I never have to do the is it just cooked/ still raw dance depending on how full my oven is or how thick the meat is and I haven’t eaten over cooked chicken since 🥳

Were most of them at 180? Otherwise this doesn't explain the 180 thing?

I agree with longer and lower, faster and higher tbh. I guess the dots between gas marks makes sort of sense. The middle dot "feels right". You cannot be accused of putting it too high or too low?

The 180 thing will be the optimum temperature for both speed and being cooked through without being burnt. Obviously we don't manufacture certain food to be cooked at that as a chicken breast isn't manufactured. In that case done means the centre of the meat being the correct temperature to have killed bacteria. Things that are manufactured like pizza and quiche will have the same suggested cooking temp regardless of the thickness of the base or topping. Any higher and you risk burning while the middle is still soggy or cool. Or won't have taken long when these became a common thing to buy to figure that out. You could cook them for longer at a lower temperature but most people don't want to wait!

There are ways to gage whether an oven is right for cooking certain things, for bread you throw some flour in, how quickly it burns tells you how hot the oven is.

Bringing things to the boil probably has more to do with making sure the food will cook, you can just throw meat and veg in a slow cooker and add hot water but if you are cooking the same stew on the hob you will bring it up to boil and then turn down to a simmer.

The top of the oven would always be hotter so once you had shelves you would put roast potatoes or Yorkshire pudding on the top shelf and other foods lower.

This. You need to give the people who are unable to use their own judgement some instructions that will more or less work, to give nicely cooked food that doesn't burn on the outside before it is cooked in the middle - that is the main driver of the number that is chosen, but often it's not that important, something in the right ballpark is fine.

Note that ovens can vary and what works in one oven won't necessarily work in another. Also due to the increased cancer risk from crispier fries etc, they're not supposed to give instructions for properly crispy chips.

I take the instructions as a guide and just leave things in there until they look cooked, which drives DP mad. If I put something in the oven and then the timer beeps and I'm busy he will say he'll go and look at it but ask if it's going to be done or needs putting on for longer and I tell him I can't say because I can't see it. Whereas he will look at the instructions and if it says 15 minutes at 180 C that's what he does. But I put it in for 10 mins at 180 and then go and look at it, turn it round, move it up or down a shelf and then decide whether to put it on for another 5/10 minutes depending on what I think it needs until it will be done or need looking at next.

Buy oven and food thermometers and get DC to experiment! It's quite fascinating.

I've noticed that our electric oven is hotter by the door than at the back, something to do with the fan, which is very obvious if I do a tray of Yorkshire puddings. It takes longer than I think to get the oven to temperature, but there isn't much difference between shelves.

I think PPS are right, 180 is a rough guide for optimal "cooking through without burning in a reasonable time". I do a lot of things on a lower temp for longer because I put the oven on and go for a walk or WFH prep at lunchtime and it's ready for dinner. Any higher than 180 things will burn before they are warm in the middle, and lower and it takes longer than people want to wait.