Is anyone a Proof-reader here? I have some questions :-)

[WhyDidNoOneListenToRoger]

Would you recommended the job?

Can you tell the the for and against please? Would a certificate from a place like this - https://www.centreofexcellence.com/shop/proofreading-editing-diploma-course/?utm_voucher=GARET&gclid=CjwKCAjwsJ6TBhAIEiwAfl4TWJ12NOo3CA3LEG730FBtYC8JooWqWhQDWVcnDmdc_RrUAU8mAqdCeBoCTcgQAvD_BwE
be enough to be qualified?

If not how long did it take you?

Thank you in advance

What sort of proofreading service are you hoping to offer?

Do you have an area of expertise?

Training is useful but that course doesn’t look great.

www.ciep.uk/

I'm a proofreader, but I do it part-time and freelance.

I do enjoy the job, but it's an art and a skill that perhaps not everyone can manage. There are grammar rules, but there are also stylistic preferences, choosing which words to use, how can I reframe this sentence to make it more understandable, that sort of thing.

I didn't actually do a course in proofreading. I have a science background, so I got involved in proofreading papers for science journals. I just answered a job advertisement and I was lucky with my timing, I guess.

I have to admit, given the number of mistakes in your post, it might not be the job for you though. 😉

I have to admit, given the number of mistakes in your post, it might not be the job for you though.

That is exactly what I came on to say...

I'm an editor and my work includes proofreading. I have had no training in proofreading.

If you hope to earn money from proofreading alone, forget it.

Apologies, that probably sounded flippant, and wasn't meant to be.

You can learn what they claim to teach you without paying.

Proofreading isn't well paid.

You need strong SPaG.

**I'm a rubbish typist and tired

I am a freelance proofreader/copy editor. My clients are mainly people who are self-publishing their books - I format and design for them as well, so offer a package. It works for me as I've got a lot of contacts in that market and word of mouth has been an important part of getting out there.

The course you've linked looks suspiciously cheap for a proper proofreading certification. You want one either from the Chartered Institute of Editing and Proofreading itself (linked above) or one that is accredited by them (I did mine through College of Media and Publishing - a really good, comprehensive course that set me up well. It's a well thought of course in the industry though the CIEP ones are the best - and most expensive.)

You don't actually need a qualification, but if you want to do it seriously and look professional it will help - and if you're wanting to get into proofreading for publishers, journals etc you really do need some kind of background in it or at least show proven aptitude. I set up a webpage with testimonials from clients and that's a really good way of showcasing what you do and what people think - you still need a way of advertising that, though - I am a member of various writing groups as I am an author myself so it came organically for me.

I love it as a career - it suits me well because I write anyway and I've always been very picky about spelling and grammar. The course taught me a lot I didn't know - especially things to do with style guides - it's not all spotting typos, there's a whole lot more to it. It's a pretty intensive job and you need a whole load of patience - a lot of sitting at your computer. It can cause eye strain so you need to make time for breaks and other stuff. You need to be able to concentrate for long periods of time, and sometimes the material can be dull and dry as well as poorly written.

It's very satisfying to shape up a product - books, in my case - and to see clients happy with your work.

It's time consuming. I don't make a whole lot of money from it, but I don't at present charge very high prices as I'm still fairly new to it and am building my list of clients. I will be raising them soon, as I have to live - just be prepared to start small, to see how you get on, without really high expectations.

@WhyDidNoOneListenToRoger , what in particular appeals to you about the course. If you are looking for a role, what sort of role would you like?

Do you have any qualifications that might be relevant, and if so, what are they?

Associated work is likely to be freelance, and might not be very secure. I learnt my skills on the job, from training and working with people who were good at the work.

Thank you for that link, it is very helpful. I am just starting to look into it, so I am not sure what options/services there are atm!

double and triple checks posts before unwanted critiques from @TigerLilyTail and @Hunderland

@MrsEmmaKnightley I have always enjoyed pedants corner SPaG and have a history degree. I have been working for that last 2 years as a TEFL tutor but no experience apart from that.

@Madhairday thank you so much for all that info! Very helpful 😊

If you have TEFL experience I’d set yourself up with offering services to non-native speakers in the first instance.

If you want to do commercial proofreading for companies etc then expect robust criticism - it’s one of those jobs where you cannot make mistakes, because you are the last line of defence.

A pp mentions the College of Media and Publishing.

I am doing a course with them (not proofreading) and it is excellent, so I would also recommend them.

Good luck

*criticisms.

*pedants' corner

I'd look at something like copywriting or content writing.
You could get started by creating a blog.

With your tutoring background, computer-assisted learning and training, might be something you could look into

You learn by doing, so maybe you could put together some little sample training courses based on your TEFL so that you have some work samples.

You will need strong software skills - at least a basic understaning of Microsoft Office. If you think you know Word because you have used it to write a dissertation, then you probably have only scratched the surface. I'd make sure you can use styles and create templates. Be aware that a template and a boilerplate are different.

If you are proofreading, your SPaG and attention to detail needs to be strong.

It would also help if you have some understanding of graphics tools and of HTML, XML and JavaScript. You don't need to pay for training.

A lot of the documents I edit are a total mess and I work with some clueless writers, who don't know enough to know that they don't know it all
I can tell if documentation has been written by a trained writer or by someone who thinks they can write. Even tech authors are sometimes clueless, and I have had times when a colleague's relative has been drafted in to help (usually a manager's wife or student daughter). They are usually more hindrance than help.

You need a thick skin. People don't like being corrected. I still mind when I am, but if I get something back with no corrections then it probably hasn't been reviewed properly. My attitude is 'if they have picked up on it, they may have a point'.

The standard of written English is declining rapidly, so the demand in proofreading might be more valued. Who knows. Spellcheckers aren't reliable and I have a habit of pressing a key twice or not pressing hard enough, so end up with words like off, too, inn and fist instead of of, to, in and first.

I have an online chat with a new colleague who has written' 'You've wrote a lot...' so maybe SPaG isn't so imporant but I'm clutching my pearls and reaching for the smelling salts

I used to do audio typing and did a lot through UpWorks as a freelancer. I typed a lot of interviews with people with English as a second language. I actually ended up doing quite a lot of editing and proofing for some of them. Perhaps that's a way to start? Heads up though, before you get your rating up the pay is really, really low.

@MrsEmmaKnightley That is so helpful, thank you. To be honest, I hadn't realised it was so involved. I have a health condition which means working inside the home suits me best and I am trying to think of work avenues that I can do that will fit my life and a possible lead on from what I do now. Lots to think about!

@NoSquirrels @ClaryFairchild @misscockerspaniel I really appreciate your replies and tips. Thank you!

It's not all that involved once you get your head round styles and templates, and bear in mind that I am a professional pedant.

There is an assumption that authoring and editing is 'a nice job that you can do at home while minding the children' and that all you need is the abilty to type a letter in Word and some literacy. This is how I ended up with the engineering manager's wife and software manager's daughter 'helping me out'. I got badly formatted headings with floating graphics and manual pagebreaks etc., which I had to spend time fixing.

If I am writing, I need to extract the information out of the subject matter expert, then reinterpret it so that it is what the reader wants and needs.

If I am editing, I need to know where the writer may have missed something or needs to clarify something etc

If I send work for editing, it usually shows if someone has reviewed it thoroughly or not. It's not so much about SPaG. but about is it complete, concise and understandable. If you are reviewing product documentation, you need to check it against the product.

One gripe I have is working with people who don't know the difference between an index and a table of contents. Search in pdf is no substitute for a thorough index.

You can get courses for indexing, but it is underpaid and underappreciated.

Don't let me put you off if you'd like to get a few bob for reading through self-published material. My comments are more geared from the viewpoint of an editor/writer who does some recruitment for full-time positions.

I very much agree with @MrsEmmaKnightley about learning word styles and formatting. Clients really do send material in huge messes with odd tab stops and section/page breaks, hyperlinks that don't work, unformatted headings etc and part of my job is to sort all this out - I produce ebooks as well as paperbacks so it's crucial to have the formatting in place. Word is so much more than most people realise, and can be incredibly frustrating at times. Messed up images and tables are particularly common.

@WhyDidNoOneListenToRoger I have a health condition too which means I have to work from home. This job works well for me, but it takes some time to break into the market. I haven't tried Upwork and Fiverr though they are platforms you can go with - I hear you have to start very cheap there but can build up your client base and your rating.

Out of I interest, how much do you all charge for proofreading?

@mubarak86 , usually nothing. Friends expect favours.

Professionally, usually an hourly or day rate is agreed. I do more than proofread, so cannot give an hourly rate for proofreading. A quick search suggests around the £25 per hour mark.

@mubarak86, I'd guess that to not include VAT. Bear in mind that you will need to allow for your overheads.

Word is so much more than most people realise, and can be incredibly frustrating at times. Messed up images and tables are particularly common.

This. One thing I see a lot of is paragraph marks used to space paragraphs and to push text on to the next page. This makes for messy documents.

Then you have graphics anchored to the page and a quick correction or two (e.g. changing 'Myself and DH....' to 'DH and I...' and 'could of' to 'could have') throws the formatting out of whack. The graphics may be annotated and it ends up being a right mess.

I often co-write and find documents and templates messed up by my co-writer. They are often paying for my services, so there's a degree of tact needed.

There are things like nuances that people might not be aware of like words that might be tricky in some circumstances.

I'm a proofreader and editor, freelance.
This course looks cheap and nasty to me, sorry. As others suggest, try CIEP instead.

But truthfully, I used to work in a big publishing house and anyone who applied to freelance for us who just wanted to do editorial work because they liked reading or said they were good at spelling and grammar, we would not take on.
In-house experience is highly valued. Generally when you've worked in-house you've done a lot of proofreading/editing already, in a fast-moving and high-pressure context (for example, when I was an editorial junior we'd all proof each others' cover blurbs; you really don't want to miss a mistake on those!).
And you'll have briefed editorial freelancers and checked and gone through their work, as well as often being involved in the overall project management of a book, so you'll have a grasp of how a book actually goes through the production process and how to help it do so as smoothly as possible (ie what all the different areas involved – production/art/picture research/text design – need from editorial to make things clear and correct, not to mention what wastes time and what saves time, which is often vital.)

On pay, again, take any course that says you can make big money from proofreading with a LARGE pinch of salt. IME the big houses pay about £19–£22 an hour. You may do better with a house or individual editor who pays fixed fees (I naturally work quite fast, so fixed fees suit me). Also, if you work with indie authors, or clients who are not publishers (e.g. I sometimes work with charities and universities on their publications), you can often charge more. But non-publishing clients may have little or no understanding of the process and make your life more stressful, so you have to weigh up if the extra money is worth it.

Working in-house at various publishers, I can confidently say that proofreaders who try to push for the CIEP recommended minimums would get no work. If you want to proofread interesting books, you get paid less but you’ll get regular work if you’re competent, easy to deal with and return things ruthlessly on time or early if possible. And can be flexible sometimes with terribly tight deadlines.

If you’re starting out, don’t think you’ll be getting books to proofread, is my advice. Start with a specialism you can target that you feel confident in the subject, then go from there.