DS wants to be a girl, need advice on how to support him

[Kotaro]

Note: I'm not interested in any sort of "men can't be women" or "transwomen are men" or "they're eroding our rights" debate. This isn't about biological debate, this is about my child who has not tried to remove anyone's rights and who has no concept of any of that stuff.

DS is 13. At 9 he told us he was gay. At 11 he told us he didn't feel like a boy and liked girl things. We explained that liking "girl" things doesn't make you a girl just as liking "boy" things doesn't make you a boy, there are a million different ways to be a man/woman, and so on. This weekend he has told us that its not just about liking girl things, he wants to live as a girl. He wants to use she/her pronouns and wants to go by his preferred name which is a traditionally female name. He's been using these pronouns and this name in his friendship group which I was aware of but thought it was just kids messing on, he says that he's much happier being called this. He has grown his hair long over the last year, he likes having his nails painted, and he does sometimes wear clothing from the girls/women's section such as t-shirts, hoodies, and various accessories. Again I thought this was just his style which is sort of anime meets skater meets rainbow emo.

He has said he's much happier now we know and while he has no immediate plans to start living as a girl, it is something he wants.

I've made it clear I love him no matter what and that I'll support him in however he wants to live, however he wants to dress, my own personal thoughts on the issue aren't relevant here, this is about him and if I'd confessed something major about myself to my parents I'd have been detailed if they'd told me that it wasn't real and that it didn't exist. He's still my child regardless and I'd rather a child in a dress comfortable in their own skin than a miserable child trying to conform to what they think other people want them to be.

Obviously though I'm worried for him. People are more open now and more accepting but there are still dickheads around, I know he'll have a difficult path ahead. We live in a small place too where people know, and often have too much to say, about other people's business.

How do I deal with school if/when he does want to wear the girls uniform or use a different name? How do I deal with wider family? I know FIL in particular will have many inappropriate things to say, probably framed as "jokes" but no less offensive for it. How do I deal with his siblings and explain it to them?

I've asked for a referral to school health, we can self-refer here, to see if there is someone neutral he can talk to who will help him pick through it all and who will work with us to give him the emotional support he's going to need. I have a friend whose sibling transitioned and I'm going to talk to her about it too as I'm sure she'll have some advice.

Is there anything else I need to do or not do? I didn't expect this to be an issue I'd have to parent through.

Personally I would throw everything I had at some serious counselling for him and possibly you too and not just rely on school counsellors. Try not to worry about future comments / situations just yet.

You carry on as you are whilst not lying to him, or allowing him to lie to himself, that anything he does will actually change his sex. He will still be a boy, male, one who prefers the social stereotypes associated with girls, women. That's fine. Well, maybe not because they are fucking poison to anyone like your son who cannot fit himself into the 'male/masculine' stereotype. That's Toxic Masculinity in action.

But you seem to be doing all you can. FIL can be told to wind his neck in. Siblings will probably deal with it better than you think, but can be reminded to mind themselves as needed. Your son has chosen to make changes that will cause many to look askance, he will need a strong supportive family to feel confident enough to cultivate a thick skin.

The only note of caution I would sound is when looking for school/external support. I know you started off with an admonishment about the 'biological debate' but you also have to avoid the opposite. You don't want him being lied to about drugs being reversable, surgery being essential, etc etc etc. You want him to learn how to accept himself for who he is without needing to rush into anything drastic or irreversible.

No matter what you may have read, been told about the Sex and Feminism board here I think you would get a lot of links to useful information, supportive organisations, signposting away from the ones that affirm with no question (often leading to entrenched views about surgery, hormones being the only way forward).

Good luck navigating this. I have a friend who has been doig this for the last 6 years. Her son made the same decsion at about 8. He has now decided to cut his hair, wear 'normal' clothes and be a boy again. She is absolutely devastated, was far too entrenched, invested in his being a girl. And I mewan devastated, off work, GP has prescribed antoi dperessants and her son is panicking about the choices he made. Don't do that to yourself or to your son. Just let him explore the ossibilities at his own pace whilst keeping an eye on any extreme behaviour.

Yes we talked a bit about surgery and drugs. I told him that he's 13 and we're not prepared to sign off on anything involving blockers or lopping bits off, he has said he's not interested in that just now or even at all. I tried explaining to him that right now he's the first draft of who he'll eventually be and that it's normal to go through lots of drafts between now and being an adult, I'm not who I was at 13, and soon.i did emphasise that I don't mean its just a phase and he'll grow out of it, just that there a million different shades of gender identity and he might find that rather than being wholly one or wholly the other he might find he's a little bit from column a, a little from column b, and a few dashes from several other columns too.

You sound like you are going a amazing job already. Just go with whatever your DS wants but keep an eye out on his mental health. It sounds like his friendship group are already in the loop and they will rally around and act as a buffer to any negative comments. When he is ready to transition at school he will let you know, but it may be worth speaking you the schools safeguarding lead for more information.

right now he's the first draft of who he'll eventually be and that it's normal to go through lots of drafts between now and being an adult

Excellent way of putting it! I hope he can take that to heart!

You sound so so so lovely, they are lucky to have someone so understanding as a parent x

While I appreciate its normal to wonder about the future, it doesn’t actually sound like you need to do anything different right now. You haven’t mentioned your DS being unhappy or facing any current difficulties, so let them be.

You’re in a precarious position of pushing them down a path they might not be ready for.

I agree, you sound great OP.

You sound like a lovely parent and I'm not surprised he is feeling relieved, bless him (sorry, I am GC so hope it's ok if I follow you with the male pronouns). Have you come across the Gender: A Wider Lens podcast? Two knowledgeable and empathetic therapists discussing gender issues with a non-judgemental take. I would also look into Transgender Trend, for a more neutral, less automatically affirmative approach. They're also good for reassurance about mental health in trans people and so on.

I would go absolutely zero tolerance on insensitive 'jokes' from relatives. This new stage of dressing how he likes and being creative could be something joyful and wonderful for your DC - leaving issues of definition aside - and he doesn't need a cold shower of ridicule from them.

The school shouldn't be imposing 'boy' and 'girl' labels on clothes anyway, never mind whether they have trans pupils or not. You could tackle it from that angle. It's nonsensical to oppose a boy wearing a skirt or dress, there's no basis in reason for it.

But when it comes to some things, for example using the girls' loos, I think he would probably be able to grasp that it would be best for him not to use these, and to give the girls their privacy. Could you also ask him why he thinks clothes and long hair have anything to do with being a girl? What is it about the pronoun that he particularly likes? What is a girl? As long as you're calm and friendly, and show genuine interest in what he has to say, hopefully he will see that you're not being unsupportive in raising these issues.

You should look on Transgender Trend for some recommendations for therapists. He really needs to explore what he thinks ‘living as a girl’ means when realistically it’s only ever going to be adhering to feminine stereotypes. I would be spending some time looking at his internet usage as it sounds like he’s been talking to people who have groomed him into believing these things, particularly as you’ve previously had conversations about how girl things don’t make you a girl etc.

Regardless of whether or not you want to have difficult conversations they are coming. You would honestly be doing your child a disservice to just bow down and let him do exactly as he pleases IMO.

Good luck.

It sounds like you have a really good relationship with him and really sensible not to use puberty blockers of cross sex hormones as effects can be irreversible and very dangerous on a developing brain and body for example significantly lower IQ etc. I do find it sad that he doesn’t feel he is able to fit in being gay and that being gay means he can’t be manly or a man. I blame social sexist stereotypes for this and can only imagine the homophobic stuff he is probably exposed to at school etc. Apparently between 60-90% plus de transition before 18 years old and I assume live as happy gay adults. I know that some gay people find encouraging children to be trans a form of gay conversion therapy. Anyway I wish you the best of luck op and I am not sure I would be able to handle it that well if it were my daughter.

I really don't have any advice to offer, just to say that you sound like a lovely caring parent and that you're doing an amazing job. I hope everything works out in the most positive way x

Hi OP,
It sounds like you’re handling this so well and I’m sure your DC is feeling very supported and loved.

For the love of god though, Mumsnet is a terrible place to ask for advice about this topic. I think, if you start following advice on gender and identity doled out on this website, your child won’t feel supported for very long.

My only experience of this, is a friend who's 12 year old son came out as a girl and changes his name. She, a social worker, is very supportive, writing complaints to the school over toilet and changing room issues, standing alongside him while he speaks at a trans rights protest. Then after a while he decided he was not a girl OR a boy, and gave himself a neutral name. Recently, he has gone back to being a boy but given himself a different boy's name. We were always supportive of him and honoured he name and pronoun choices. I do think in most cases, therapy should happen, and not limited to gender therapists.

Has there been anything other than support for OP here?

What have you seen that OP should ignore?

Maybe think before you start all of that kind of bollocks. OP doesn't need it. Please stop, have some respect!

Then how come all the advice OP has had here has been productive and empathetic?

You sound like an incredible mother. Your child is so lucky to have a supportive/ kind and understanding one. Keep doing what your doing, you clearly have a great and open relationship which is why she has been able to express herself to you at a young age.

I wouldn't let my child back themselves into any kind of corner at the young age of 13.

PS in light of comments after mine - I am sorry if my comment seems a bit harsh, I don’t mean it to. I just think that this can be a juggernaut very hard to stop if the adults in your child’s life are not really sure what they think/feel/what are appropriate next steps. ‘Be kind’ has got us here.

You sound like you are treading this path beautifully- the ‘drafts’ idea is a lovely image which gives him permission to explore without feeling like anything is set in stone.

Pressed post before adding that I think valadon68’s post was spot on in terms of interacting with school.

This is a nice way of explaining it. I've said something similar to my DD. We change and grow throughout our lives. Choices at each stage are valid, but not necessarily permanent.