Why don't they use Milk?

[Cocobeau]

I'm always curious when I visit other countries why they don't seem to have the obsession with milk that we have in the UK? In some countries I've visited it's been nearly impossible to find any fresh milk even in large supermarkets, just UHT. Other places you can find fresh milk, but very limited in small sections. I've certainly never seen anything like the entire fridges dedicated to the various milk types we have in the UK (maybe except for NZ). So why do we feel such a strong need for fresh milk and not the rest of the world? What do they use instead? Do they just give their kids water once they've come off breast/infant milk?

Besides the fact that cows' milk has been linked to breast and prostrate cancer. - evidence?

The last time I looked, the evidence seems to show a mildly protective effect for bowel cancers and no significant risk factor for breast or other cancers but I realise things might have moved on -

www.cancerresearchuk.org/about-cancer/causes-of-cancer/cancer-myths/can-milk-and-dairy-products-cause-cancer

I find it interesting that different cultures put importance on different foods for nutrition, in the uk we seem so sure kids HAVE to have milk and yogurt to have healthy teeth and bones. I did start looking at what different cultures around the world worry about their kids not getting enough of, I would love to see a list. I found it amazing when watching a program about schools in america they felt the benefit of milk was so great that chocolate milk was good as it encourages kids to drink milk!

Lactase is the enzyme that is needed to digest the milk sugar, lactose. Its production in humans is often downregulated in adulthood. However sometimes it is produced in adults, this is called lactase persistence (LP). LP varies widely between populations. In Northern Europeans it's high (ranging from 89 to 96% in Britain, Ireland, Scandinavia). Very low in East Asia, patchy in Africa etc. Basically it varies from place to place and this is why some cultures don't use milk.

I live in Germany.

They don't drink tea continually throughout the day. If they do, they drink herbal teas without milk.
It's common to prefer coffee black. If people do have some kind of whitener in their coffee at home it is typically a kind of sweetened UHT cream a bit like condensed milk.
Breastfeeding until around 2 is common so not much cow's milk given to toddlers routinely.
Cereal is seen as sugary junk food. People more often eat bread with ham, cheese and boiled eggs for breakfast, or fruit and yoghurt.

When people do cook with milk or eat cereal or make milkshakes etc, UHT milk is often used. People are used to the taste of it and don't think it tastes horrible, so there isn't much of a market for fresh milk, as why would you intentionally buy something with a shorter shelf life that takes up space in the fridge if you don't need to?

IME the taste also varies - if you buy the supermarket own "value" brand then it tastes like UHT milk in the UK, but if you buy fancy organic Alpine stuff it tastes much closer to fresh milk when it is chilled.

@Trulyweird1

Well the primary function of cows milk is to fatten their offspring. My mum told me that , as a child in the 1930s, in a city, milk was a rarity , and it was only after WWII that , in her case, it became a staple. ( I have lived in several countries around the world, and breakfast more often than not, consisted of cheese or yoghurts, made from cows, ewes , or goats milk; milks that were fermented, or preserved or changed to have a longer like ; other than North America, where cereal & milk, cookies & milk etc are common. So I think it’s just that other countries have a different dietary focus.

My Mum was a working class Londoner in the 1930's and there were milk deliveries.

Bovine nipple milk? Don't know how ANY country stomachs it!

If you're comparing the UK to similar European countries like France, I think it's partly due to milkmen. In the 1950s and 60s most people did not have a fridge in the UK- fresh milk came daily from the milkman (especially for people in urban areas). In eg France, no milkmen so people needed milk which stayed fresh longer.

Now obviously most people have a fridge, but the habits have stuck. I also think that the way Brits consume milk lends itself better to fresh milk- drinking it in tea or straight. Countries in which people also drink a lot of milk straight (such as the Netherlands) also have lots of fresh milk.

Outside the West, most people's diets are much less reliant on milk and many people cannot tolerate it.

We drink a lot of milk in Ireland too. Apparently we are a huge producer of baby formula which is imported in China.

Anyway as others have said it probably comes down to climate. What becomes normal. I lived in Australia for a few years and recall most milk being fresh. Even when I worked on very remote farms we bought milk and froze it. But in Asian countries I visited you often got a thick sweet substance with coffee.

Apparently Irish (and probably some Brits) smell a bit like milk to Asian people? Not sure if that is true, but it might be!

Also in Ireland/ Britain/ other parts of North Europe we have a natural advantage to producing milk. The mostly mild weather and fairly consistent rain produces great grass.

@Obelisk

If you're comparing the UK to similar European countries like France, I think it's partly due to milkmen. In the 1950s and 60s most people did not have a fridge in the UK- fresh milk came daily from the milkman (especially for people in urban areas). In eg France, no milkmen so people needed milk which stayed fresh longer.

Now obviously most people have a fridge, but the habits have stuck. I also think that the way Brits consume milk lends itself better to fresh milk- drinking it in tea or straight. Countries in which people also drink a lot of milk straight (such as the Netherlands) also have lots of fresh milk.

Outside the West, most people's diets are much less reliant on milk and many people cannot tolerate it.

I suspect this is true up to a point, but UHT milk as we know it today only really became widely available in the 1970's, when home refrigeration was already widespread anyway. Prior to that, if you couldn't keep milk refrigerated either at home or in the supply chain (the latter of which is still a big problem in many parts of the world) then it was preserved by sweetening or canning (and often both), or it was powdered.

While ultra heat treatment has been around as a concept since before WW1, suitable sterile packaging for milk wasn't developed until the 1950's and 1960's.

Apparently Irish (and probably some Brits) smell a bit like milk to Asian people? Not sure if that is true, but it might be!

I grew up in the Far East and am lactose intolerant. I can't say I've ever noticed that individuals from the British Isles smell milky, but their poo often does to me.

Some really interesting points I'd never have considered, thank you. I had no idea that things like tolerances within different cultures was even a thing. I thought I was going to end up feeling dumb for asking this but I feel enlightened.

For reference, I'm talking about both European countries and non-European. Vietnam, Mauritius for example. (I can't remember which Euro countries I specifically had issues in).

I have visited Amsterdam but only for about 3 days and I wasn't spending my time looking for milk on that occasion

@irishfarmer interesting about the baby formula. In Australia we sell loads of it to China too. Even down to an individual level - people come here to buy it up and take home to China. The Chinese made stuff is seem as quite risky so people who can afford to avoid it do.

OP loads of milk in Australia too (and the US and Canada from my travels. Actually more so. I would accidentally run out faster in the UK as 1 pint cartons are quite a bit smaller than 1 litre cartons (and my brain stuck on the “1 carton” bit).

My Nan used to get sterilised milk delivered - now that tasted vile

In some parts of the world, about 90% of adults are lactose intolerant so can't digest milk properly (can lead to nausea, bloating, abdominal cramps and loose stools).

I've read it's only about 15% of adults in Northern Europe who are lactose intolerant, hence milk is a more acceptable food for more people.

There are theories about why different populations adapted to different sources of nutrients.

@RB68

My Nan used to get sterilised milk delivered - now that tasted vile

yes it did!

[quote tcjotm]@irishfarmer interesting about the baby formula. In Australia we sell loads of it to China too. Even down to an individual level - people come here to buy it up and take home to China. The Chinese made stuff is seem as quite risky so people who can afford to avoid it do.

OP loads of milk in Australia too (and the US and Canada from my travels. Actually more so. I would accidentally run out faster in the UK as 1 pint cartons are quite a bit smaller than 1 litre cartons (and my brain stuck on the “1 carton” bit).[/quote]
There was a scandal about baby milk and other foods made in China being adulterated with melamine. People have long memories. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Chinese_milk_scandal

@Cocobeau

Some really interesting points I'd never have considered, thank you. I had no idea that things like tolerances within different cultures was even a thing. I thought I was going to end up feeling dumb for asking this but I feel enlightened.

For reference, I'm talking about both European countries and non-European. Vietnam, Mauritius for example. (I can't remember which Euro countries I specifically had issues in).

I have visited Amsterdam but only for about 3 days and I wasn't spending my time looking for milk on that occasion

Never had a problem to find fresh milk in Vietnam, they even give it to children in nursery. When you go to a coffee shop usually the only choice is cow's milk or condensed milk (rarely soya), only recently there's been more options introduced like almond etc. Also, China is the second largest dairy market in the world after US, so it's not true that people in all Asian countries consume less milk than Europeans.

@SilverSplitsTheBlue

Bovine nipple milk? Don't know how ANY country stomachs it!

I fed my kids bovine nipple milk and a hen's period for breakfast.

Agree with previous poster that it's conceptually weird.

Using cows as milking machines is cruel of humans.

Plenty of oat milks etc on the market that taste much better too.

Fresh milk is tricky to keep fresh in hit countries

Humans be like:
Pig milk? yeuch!
Horse milk? yeuch!
Rhinoceros milk? yeuch!
Cow milk? Yum, bring it on!

not quite. Many Central Asian countries drink horses milk.
I imagine that the amenability of the animal to stand still and be milked has something to do with it. Pigs are bloody minded and dangerous.

In Russia/Russian cultures they drink a lot of kefir rather than milk. I always assumed it was because if the difficulty of keeping milk fresh.

@Marynotsocontrary

Lactase is the enzyme that is needed to digest the milk sugar, lactose. Its production in humans is often downregulated in adulthood. However sometimes it is produced in adults, this is called lactase persistence (LP). LP varies widely between populations. In Northern Europeans it's high (ranging from 89 to 96% in Britain, Ireland, Scandinavia). Very low in East Asia, patchy in Africa etc. Basically it varies from place to place and this is why some cultures don't use milk.

I came on to pretty much say the same. I am lactose intolerant and I get pretty fed up with all the products we have in this country, that contain cow’s milk.

Pigs have too many nipples.
And they drag in the mud.

Loads of milk in Australia too. There’s a famous ad poking fun at just many different variants of cows milk are available to purchase.

Milk (cow's or other) is very popular in Europe, central Asia and Russia - also in the US and Canada and parts of North Africa. Not most of the wolrd but certainly many countries apart from the UK.

There is a big variety of dairy products on Eastern Europe/ Russia /Central Asia. I can't see keeping milk cold being a challenge in most of Russia TBH My impression when visiting was that kefir is seen as being very good for you, children are encouraged to drink it etc. Research seems to be catching up to that.