Why is there so much intensive learning around English grammar at primary school now?

[dottyspotmonster]

Just helping my dc through their independent and dependent clauses Easter homework.
My dc seems to have a heavy load of grammatical terms and their meanings to learn, when really as long as you speak the language you know them anyway surely.
Seems a waste of time when it could be spent learning more useful things.

Because we were all a bit shit at grammar at schools and parents asked why. Now grammar is hugely pushed at school and we ask why 🤷🏽‍♀️

About bloody time too. Where I live, most adults as well as children can't spell basic words and haven't got the first clue about grammar or punctuation etc. Many adults here can't write at all because they weren't taught to properly at school. I DREAD having to send my 2 year old daughter to any school in this area and am praying we can afford to move before she's school age.

Because British people are terrible at grammar and spelling. As a non British person, I’m constantly appalled at the poor level of written and spoken English in the UK.

But we are terrible at a lot of things. But these things don't appear to be intensively learnt in school?

Having shit spelling and grammar could immediately disqualify you from a lot of job applications though.

Because it was a big thing in the National Curriculum 2014 and that's what we have to teach.

Because teaching grammar is useful. However, I do think this government has taken it too far and gone beyond what is useful and functional. Nobody needs to know what a fronted adverbial is, that's just bollocks. However, there is a happy medium to be had here and that does include teaching grammar - also because later on it will make learning MFL much easier.

Because the government have just decided that 90% of children need to be expected standard (2022 white paper).

You've seen mumsnet, right?

Myself and my husband.
He gifted it to myself.

Every bloody thread. Totally wrong. Those people just look stupid to anyone educated.

Thousands of adults do not understand the correct words to use. It is about time this was properly taught.

Read Mumsnet more frequently- it's littered with posts that have embarrassingly poor grammar.

e.g. "you was", "myself and my husband", "the house I brought..."

Clearly intensive grammar focus is absolutely necessary!

@BeforeGodAndAllTheFish

You've seen mumsnet, right?

Myself and my husband.
He gifted it to myself.

Every bloody thread. Totally wrong. Those people just look stupid to anyone educated.

Thousands of adults do not understand the correct words to use. It is about time this was properly taught.

Completely agree. The use of "myself" is the worst - how can do many ostensibly-literate adults not know when to use the words "I" and "me"?

Michael Gove's desire to replicate his grammar school experience.

There's no need to teach the level of grammar to primary school children that is happening now. Yes they should be learning to spell and punctuate. And they should be expanding their reading and vocabulary. Learning what a fronted adverbial is? Not so much. If they read well, they'll use those styles anyway.

So they can pass the SPaG test in Year 6 SATs.

It helps with the learning of MFL, at which the Brits are notoriously rubbish.

What do you think is more useful than understanding the language you speak, read and write?

English people are notoriously lazy at learning other languages. We expect everybody else to speak English. The least we can do is be competent enough at it that we can communicate well.

as long as you speak the language you know them anyway surely

You'd think so, but in reality it's not the case.

Michael Gove.

A lot of the G taught in y5/y6 is pointless and not built on at secondary and so promptly forgotten.
For lower ability this is even worse as they are taught it but don't learn it, at the expense of consolidating more basic things like identifying nouns, knowing where to use commas etc.

But what about all the availability of computers that correct everything for you? I use tools when I need to write something properly. Admittedly I wouldn't use it on Mn but I'm not overly fussed about being judged on here. I would use it for something like a CV.

I do not get things like learning about an independent or dependent clause, or
Subjunctive verbs
Onomatopoeia
Subject pronouns
These things just exist surely.

Also universities are in the middle of a row because they've dropped their standards on grammar for a lot of subjects too, so even less likely to be downgraded for a lack of knowledge of your onomatopoeic words these days.

My argument is more that it's a massive waste of limited resources and time, in an ideal world everyone would know everything but for most state schools in the U.K., we are far from an ideal world.

Grammar seems to be an ancient pursuit in comparison to something like more time spent coding or other skills.

Im part of the generation that didnt really get taught grammar well and I find it much harder to learn foreign languages than say, my mother, who has an excellent grasp of grammar due to being taught it thorougly at school

My mum was a primary school teacher. I had absolutely no clue what all the terms she was using were. I was never taught them. Came massively unstuck when I did GCSE German as had no idea what a split infinitive was or anything apart from the very basics!

Grammar seems to be an ancient pursuit in comparison to something like more time spent coding or other skills.

But coding has grammar (syntax) too

These things just exist surely

Yes, and being able to use them for effective writing is a skill very much worth having.

The terminology is only unfamiliar to you because you were never taught it. It's really very straightforward

But what about all the availability of computers that correct everything for you?

They can't catch everything. Sometimes you'll write something that's technically correct but isn't what you meant, or where the 'autocorrect' tool will think you mean something you don't.

For example: there's is a pint.

Autocorrect hasn't changed that.
I could mean 'theirs is a pint' - if I'm telling someone what drink my friends want or 'there's a pint' if I'm handing someone their drink.

See I didn't start learning any additional languages until senior school, one at 11 and one at 12 and can speak 2 additional languages now, I had to learn things like what a verb was then but that was solely for learning a foreign language. I didn't get taught anything like a clause until then. It didn't hold me back at all.
And in all honesty I still couldn't say what a subject pronoun was without looking it up.

I do not get things like learning about an independent or dependent clause, or
Subjunctive verbs
Onomatopoeia
Subject pronouns
These things just exist surely.

What? These are basic facets of grammar @dottyspotmonster. You sound really (proudly and brazenly) ignorant if you don’t think verb tenses and pronouns are worth learning. What the hell?