Intergenerational living - anyone got any experience esp 'granny annexe' type arrangements

[AudTheDeepMinded]

Hello everyone. I asked this in Gransnet but no response so far. We are considering living together as a family with one grandparent. The property we are looking at has a garden flat which they would inhabit (larger than current property and with large shared garden). Buying it would be through selling both properties. Has anyone got any experience of this and can advise us of things we really need to consider, especially legally. Benefits and disadvantages etc. How does it work financially in your case? Are we all being canny or naive?

Thank you.

Well I suppose the obvious is do you have any siblings and what will happen when it comes to wills and assets being split.

Also, if your parent needs care at some point can they afford to pay for that/are you prepared to look after them yourselves?

We lived like this for several years it worked really well. We had no mortage and each paid their own bills, more or less. We shared meals, cooked for each other, did/paid for the things we thought important in the garden etc.
I guess it will come down to personalities and ability to compromise in the end.

Following with interest as we're considering this!

I think you'd need to consider things like what if the older person had to go into a care home or something, then you could be stuck with their capital tied up in a house that can't be sold because it's part of yours. I don't know what happens in situations like this.

@Babyroobs

I think you'd need to consider things like what if the older person had to go into a care home or something, then you could be stuck with their capital tied up in a house that can't be sold because it's part of yours. I don't know what happens in situations like this.

This is something on our radar. Ideally we would provide care in the home but are not niaive to situation potentially requiring a care home. in which case fees have to be considered. We could rent the flat out to offset some of the cost. Ultimately, if grandparents name was not on deeds how would that affect things? Also, children may have left by then so we could downsize to release capital. Ugh, a crystal ball could be handy!

Get advice from age uk or similar. So many pitfalls. And have a look on the elderly parent board here to read about peoples experiences with elderlies.

@thesandwich

Get advice from age uk or similar. So many pitfalls. And have a look on the elderly parent board here to read about peoples experiences with elderlies.

Good idea. I've thought about family history and there is no dementia for example (so far) apparent in this generation or previous that I know of. Biggest issue seems to be cancer, and how much of that is due to the fact they all smoked like chimneys is hard to say. As a friend pointed out today, who's to say that Dh or I don't drop dead first, stranger things have happened. Which is why all wills would need updating.

Council tax - broadly if the annexe has a separate front door and no connection inside the house then it will get a separate council tax bill.

How will you split bills, especially if one side need to economise on utility bills, and the other really does need to be very warm.

Boundaries/privacy. How would you feel about PIL wandering into your space when you are still in your PJs with a hangover, or indulging in a mid-afternoon nap on the sofa, or when you've dropped everything for 3 days straight for a work deadline and your mum pops up in the middle of your bombsite kitchen wanting a sociable cuppa? Even if they knock first, your house isn't quite your own when the knock can come at any time. Remember it may be worse for the partner who's not a blood relation. Are you happy to have people drop in anytime at the moment, or would you feel perpetually pressured to tidy up? You go into it thinking of course we'll all be friendly while respecting one another's boundaries etc, but in practice it's very easy for one side to feel rejected, and the other intruded on, at the same time.

It's a lot about personalities. Our family is very introverted and not well suited to it I think. Try extended visits first and be honest about they make you feel.

@MinesATriple Properties have separate council tax bills and separate front doors. I do take your point about boundaries, although I tend to think we would have more issues making the children understand that they cannot just swan round to relative and disturb them on a whim. We live fairly close at the moment and relative is here a fair amount (very helpful with childcare emergencies and date nights). I gave up pretending that we live in a tidy house with them years ago! But yes, points to consider.

You sound much better prepared for it than we were!

As someone who grew up living in a three generation household, as well as the financial and long term security side of things you do no need to consider the pact on your children...

• What role will grandparents play in childcare and parenting? Where will the boundaries be?
• How will the space be divided up in the main house? Eg is it very much yours and the garden house their area or will you both freely wander between the two?
• How will you manage inevitable normal family conflict with grandparents potentially always being around/involved?

-Eating arrangements- will you eat together weekly, daily, monthly?

• Will your DC be completely free to go between the houses?

While there were some lovely positives of growing up with my grandparents, there were also many negatives for me. I had a fairly standard, supportive loving relationship with grandparents but living together did make things a lot harder and I wish I hadn't grown up with them so intensely.

The generational gap meant I had a lot of judgement from grandparents as a teenager. There was a lot less privacy - examples above but grandparents wandering in at anytime or knowing everything about all my friends/boyfriends- the good and the bad! There was a lot of expectation from the older generation that the house should be kept and run in a certain way.

I often felt I couldn't speak to my DM without grandparents hearing or being told. It was all quite overbearing. It also meant my DM was eventually stuck in the empty nest house once we all left, wanting to downsize but needing to stay and care for my grandmother as the financial set up meant care home would not work the way the money was tied up in the house.

Think really carefully!

Also consider what would happen if the grandparent’s child died, so they were left living in the house with their sil/dil.

My aunt did this with my grandmother. It was some years ago, but she had a small annexe built on the side of her house with access from the house; and the annexe also had its own front door. It was quite small - a studio with kitchenette and then a separate shower/WC, so it sounds like the annexe you have will be more substantial.

My grandmother didn't have much in the way of assets, I think she rented her house beforehand, but I think it was understood by my other aunt and my father that my aunt would get anything as she was the one doing the looking after. I know my grandmother used to give my dad envelopes of cash every so often!

She didn't need care until the very end, she died about three months after going into a care home. I am not sure what the arrangements were for payment, but back then it might have largely been covered by the NHS, at least for the first few weeks.

Also worth noting that the reason she went into a care home was because my uncle-by-marriage had cancer and my aunt couldn't cope with caring for both.

My friend tried this and it was a disaster.

They had a very large house and the granny annexe was big but was not totally separate. So the MIL just did as she pleased, wandering in whenever she liked, she had a domineering personality. My friend was the SAHP. His wife has a very demanding career so he was left dealing with MIL most of the time. It damaged the relationship between them all and she ended up moving back in to her own house. She wasn’t disabled or needing any specific care.

My MIL is supposed to be relocating near us but we have decided between us a separate but close house would be better, though now there are other issues with SIL.

@Babyroobs

I think you'd need to consider things like what if the older person had to go into a care home or something, then you could be stuck with their capital tied up in a house that can't be sold because it's part of yours. I don't know what happens in situations like this.

This.

We were going to do this with my dad two years ago. He was fit as a fiddle then.

He was diagnosed with vascular dementia at the end of last year after a very rapid and frightening decline. This time last year, he had just started having some hallucinations. Today, he’s in a care home as he needs 24/7 care, he’s a totally different person to a year ago, shuffles instead of walks, confused all the time, thinks he lives on a cruise ship.

If we had all lived together, it would have broken me. He stayed with me for 6 weeks before Christmas as I couldn’t keep my young children safe from him.

Thank fuck we didn’t look our money or God knows where we would be now with him having to go into 24/7 care. It’s hard enough with people hassling me for money while I’m trying to sell his house.

We would have probably lost our home we’d bought together under deprivation of assets as the decline was so fast.

I would think long and hard. Two years ago, I wouldn’t have believed you if you’d have told me my dad would be in the state he’s in now. Health can deteriorate rapidly.

*pool our money, not look

We do this and it’s fine. It’s a split house rather than a separate annex. No issues with privacy, we have two kitchens, two bathrooms etc and share the garden.

It makes childcare a doddle, and we split bills. We eat together a couple of times a week but otherwise only see each other briefly throughout the day.

We jointly own the house so that avoids inheritance issues and as it is both our primary residence it can’t be used for care home payments, ie the council can’t force a sale.

If you get on well it makes more sense than paying for two houses, time spent travelling to drop off kids/check on elderly relatives etc. There are no sibling issues as the inheritance plans were agreed ahead of us moving in together.

It is also a relief knowing I can keep an eye on things and Dad (82) still likes to arrange the house maintenance . Life is definitely easier.

@Worldgonecrazy

We do this and it’s fine. It’s a split house rather than a separate annex. No issues with privacy, we have two kitchens, two bathrooms etc and share the garden.

It makes childcare a doddle, and we split bills. We eat together a couple of times a week but otherwise only see each other briefly throughout the day.

We jointly own the house so that avoids inheritance issues and as it is both our primary residence it can’t be used for care home payments, ie the council can’t force a sale.

If you get on well it makes more sense than paying for two houses, time spent travelling to drop off kids/check on elderly relatives etc. There are no sibling issues as the inheritance plans were agreed ahead of us moving in together.

It is also a relief knowing I can keep an eye on things and Dad (82) still likes to arrange the house maintenance . Life is definitely easier.

I'm intrigued by the line about primary residence. Does that mean that if all of us had our name on the deeds and it's our family home, we wouldn't be expected to sell to release capital for care? The flat is separate, but I'm not sure how sellable it is as an entity. What is the legislation i need to look, do you know?

I grew up with my grandmother initially living next door, and subsequently living with us in her own rooms over the corse if about 10 years. She had dementia which got progressively worse until she died. My mother did all the work to care for her over that time. At the time I felt sorry for my mother because it was such a lot of work while she still had us children at home too. Now I wonder how it affected my parents’ marriage - they were never free to go out and enjoy life, and it was very limiting. There is no way in the world I would go this, or want my children to do it for me.

course of

@LadyHelenaJustina I can understand that. In our case we are the only close family so if relative needs care we are where the buck stops, whether they live with us, or a few streets away as at present. My FIL passed away last year and lived a four hour drive away. It was a nightmare not being able to keep an eye on him and trying to navigate issues at a distance. DH was driving up at weekends with other siblings trying to resolve issues. I therefore feel that least distance is more of an advnatage than disadvantage having gone through last years' palavers and late night phonecalls.

@AudTheDeepMinded. I don’t know the full details of the law but if you jointly own the house and live there as your primary residence, ie the parents don’t just give you part of the house to try and avoid fees, then a sale cannot be forced.

We have lived multi generational for several years so there would be no question. There is a fairly clear guide on Age U.K.

No personal experience, but I’ve certainly heard of problems when granny or grandpa later develops dementia, and can no longer understand or remember to stay in their own accommodation for much of the time, and that they mustn’t bang on the door at 3 am. (And at 3.15 and 3.35, etc….).

If they subsequently need residential care (and nobody should underestimate how utterly exhausting caring for someone with dementia can be) then if there’s still plenty of cash, no problem.

If, however, most or all of their assets have been used for the purchase of the intergenerational property, you will have a problem, and could face investigations for deprivation of assets.

The council won’t care that it was done with no such intention. As they see it, granny’s assets have been used to add considerably to the value of your property.

Just to add as well that I’m bloody glad my dad does have a home to sell to pay for care home fees.

Many of the ones who are LA funded aren’t great (he was put in one for respite from hospital, due to covid outbreaks I couldn’t see him, he was harmed through neglect and the case is ongoing, I’ll never forgive myself for not finding a private placement from the off) .

No one wants a loved one to end up in care. But if they do have to, you want them to have the best care possible and a lot of the time, that means paying for a private place.

@GETTINGLIKEMYMOTHER

No personal experience, but I’ve certainly heard of problems when granny or grandpa later develops dementia, and can no longer understand or remember to stay in their own accommodation for much of the time, and that they mustn’t bang on the door at 3 am. (And at 3.15 and 3.35, etc….).

If they subsequently need residential care (and nobody should underestimate how utterly exhausting caring for someone with dementia can be) then if there’s still plenty of cash, no problem.

If, however, most or all of their assets have been used for the purchase of the intergenerational property, you will have a problem, and could face investigations for deprivation of assets.

The council won’t care that it was done with no such intention. As they see it, granny’s assets have been used to add considerably to the value of your property.

That’s what I was told too. Which is why I thank our lucky stars that we didn’t pool money and buy a place with my dad. Dementia can set in horrifically fast and as much as I said I would never put my dad in a home, the reality of living with a person with dementia is frightening.