Question on Race and whiteness

[Nc4post99]

My children are mixed race, south Asian and white. Father asian (Muslim) and myself white European. Our children are very very fair, think mac nc 10. They visibly look very different to DH side of the family and to anyone passing them on the street they’d be considered white.

I’m not close to DH family as they don’t really think too fondly of me due to my ethnic background. There is a very much a pulling in both directions from both sides of our family to be 100% one way or the other- they are, we all are in fact VvLC with both sides of the family for these reasons.

I’ve tried chatting to DH about it but he’s just a bumble through sort of guy and doesn’t think he’s experienced racism so thinks it’s NBD, but obviously being white passing gives a certain amount of privilege.

I’ve googled and not found any resources to help my children understand the complexities of their identity. Does anyone have an recommendations?

There was a programme on BBC1 i think, on Monday called "we are england", about people of mixed ethnicity who pass for white. It may be a starting point of interest for you, my understanding is that its a series of several episodes.

The lad in that episode was called Jassa Alhuwalia, I found it interesting.

What does VvLC and NBD mean?

@VyeBrator

What does VvLC and NBD mean?

Very very low contact No big deal

Ahh thank you @SickAndTiredAgain

How old are your DC? My DS1 started developing a sense of his ethnicity/culture and asking questions when he started primary school (quite a multicultural class). I tend to just answer questions when they come up naturally.

(My DC are East Asian/White, DS1 looks Italian like me and DS2 looks more Asian.)

think mac nc 10

I love this

DC is nearly 3 and a baby so it’s not like it’s been a pressing issue in the household although it is challenging for me to connect them to their Asian culture when their dad (DH) is quite ambivalent to it all and they are LC with that side of the family. They will see their cousins on occasion and eldest does notice differences in people. She’ll say daddy’s hair is black and her hair and my hair are yellow brown (blonde I presume in her mind).

I have friends with children, half white half Chinese. They don't look white but also definitely don't look Chinese. They have quite a decent Chinese identity though, I'd say.

• They both have Chinese middle names, and their parents refer to them by them as nicknames at time.

• they don't speak mum's language but use words for family members (brother, sister, grandparents)

• they are also exposed to a lot of film and tv with general East Asian representation, just things on streaming services.

• they celebrate cultural events ie new year

• their mum makes a point of identifying East Asian representation to them, even simple things like the picture of a child in an ad or something.

These little things are important in a country where white representation is the default.

Our kids just know they are mixed heritage. I didn’t even think about it until it came to my bloods in my first pregnancy. We have two languages and two cultures. I refuse to accept my children will have any extra privilege - yes they may seem white with a tan but there names are not English and will face questions and hostile comments throughout their lives. Just in the last month I've have had an assumption that English isn’t my first language (it was requirement for a job) based on my married name (company was open about it) , our son complaining that a kid won’t stop referring to h as mafia boss in football and not forgetting h’s ‘random’ - monthly - met police traffic stop.

Maybe the fact your husband their father thinks it's no big deal then maybe it isn't?

And rather alarmingly the fact they look "white" is likely to give them fewer issues

That's not to say there won't be any future issues but they can be addressed when they arrive

@Nc4post99

DC is nearly 3 and a baby so it’s not like it’s been a pressing issue in the household although it is challenging for me to connect them to their Asian culture when their dad (DH) is quite ambivalent to it all and they are LC with that side of the family. They will see their cousins on occasion and eldest does notice differences in people. She’ll say daddy’s hair is black and her hair and my hair are yellow brown (blonde I presume in her mind).

I'm half Asian but look white. My mum was no contact with her family and I grew up in a very white middle class type area, so I don't identify with the Asian side of my family at all, and it's never really bothered me. If your children are happy, then I think these days there is no reason to force a racial or cultural identity on them that has no relevance to their day to day lives.

@NippyWoowoo DS is mixed Chinese and white English and has been raised very like your friends children. He is now 21 and very comfortable in himself.

@maddy68

Maybe the fact your husband their father thinks it's no big deal then maybe it isn't?

And rather alarmingly the fact they look "white" is likely to give them fewer issues

That's not to say there won't be any future issues but they can be addressed when they arrive

Yes and no, dh is just what you’d call half baked or half soaked at times.

To use a few examples, according to him he doesn’t really speak his own language (he actually does he flipping was born and grew up there, it’s more that he thinks in English and can’t convey complex thoughts like he can in English in his mother tongue) he’s also insistent that his language can’t be taught (it’s obviously can or it would be a dead language)

But more pertinently our children are marked as Asian and Muslim by their names, but they don’t ‘look’ it.
Names is the biggest thing, (white) people routinely pull a funny face, even my extended family members, when they hear DDs name and either routinely and purposely mispronounce it or ask if they can call her something else (my mother has done both of these) both of these things are rooted in racism.
But on the other side when we named our son we got a mot of flack from the Asian side because we chose a name that’s both Muslim and western (think along the lines of Adam/ Sam). The remarks were he’s Asian he shouldn’t have a disgusting white name. So basically it’s v us v them.
The Asian family refer to them as gori/ goreh (white ones, my transliteration here might not be good but basically white girl/boy) so their identity is already being emphasised.

I'm half white English, half a Mediterranean country heritage. Grew up with both parents, but didn't like my dad for various reasons, which led to me being ambivalent to the Mediterranean culture. However I still absorbed parts of it even though I can't speak Greek, and am clearly not a 'full English.'
Food is always a good way into discovering your heritage. Does your DH cook South Asian food? If not, LTB

@NippyWoowoo

think mac nc 10

I love this

what does this mean ?

@alexdgr8. It’s a foundation from mac cosmetics, the fairest one they make, the shade I wear also.

@NeedToKnow101 man is the worlds slowest cook… I think he made me a chicken karai (sp?) once…. Once…first and only time he’s made south Asian food

Love the Mac reference!
I'm mixed race - white/Asian.
I'm NC45 to give you an idea, although I've switched to Bobbie Brown now

I would say your biggest problem with racism is within your own families. Society can be dealt with by your children if they want to adopt an 'English' name/nickname in the future, many many people do this, although it is slowly changing thankfully.

The second issue is where you live.
If you don't live in a multi-cultural area then your children will struggle to find ways (outside of your immediate family) to find their identities in a country which has many racist inhabitants and be proud of their mixed heritages.

It can be done though, I'm very happy and proud to be mixed race. It (for me) has had as many positives as negatives over my life so far I'm sure. I had racism I'm from one side of my family (white: NC) and I've worked in the arts which is very embracing of differences.

@theschitt
I’ve moved to nars now too
Thing is though I’d be really upset if they went by an alternate name to appease society, I know people do and it would be their choice, but I’d be sad.

There’s definitely a lot of racism in both sides of the family that’s a huge huge problem but i do think they’re sort of indicative of society and where we live at large. The Asian community where we are is quite insular.

Immerse them in both cultures. Visit his country (regardless of his family). Befriend other mixed race people and people of your partners country. Your children might not have to make “the choice” but for a lot of mixed race teens there is the realisation that they are never going to be accepted as white adults, and a reaction can be to “choose” the ethnicity of their appearance.

These days there are so many mixed kids about, people mix more freely than in the past so it probably won’t be an issue but identity is a big issue. Who are they? What resonates with them? How does it affect their life? Do they feel white? Asian? British? Other? A mix of all of these things? Do they feel close to the culture, traditions and people of your partners country?

The more open you are about talking about it, including subtle racism or othering, including the reactions of your own family, the easier it will be for them.

They might face racism in their lives , they might not. But let them talk about how they feel and how they will deal with it.

That’s really good advice @Discountclaimed

You honestly sound so aware, which is way more than most.
You can't change the world, only give your children the tools for resilience and self confidence.
I agree it will be really sad if they change their names, but equally they might get bored of having the same conversations with strangers (there was definitely a time in my all white world where every conversation with a new person started with them asking me where I was from). This seemed to have changed somewhat, but the disconnect between their names and their skin tone is probably going to be noticed by a lot of people. In my case 1st name is English, my surname & skin tone not). I feel this gives others a head ups that I might be mixed race, which I like as I'm bored with fielding the looks and questions.
If I'm in a very white area in the UK (on hols etc) on occasion people seem taken aback that I have a English MC accent, even though I dress very western and literally the only thing (my facially features are European) is my skin tone - but it's amazing how often I've been othered in my life.
I love London, it's very liberating to be there, I'm the least interesting person on the tube at all times!

My DC are half white British and half North African Muslim. They pass as white British but have Arabic names. Both of them speak some Arabic and we are a bilingual household.
We have always travelled to DH's home country and so both boys have been very involved in both cultures. The important thing is that they both feel proud of each aspect of their identity. I see my DC as having a real advantage in understanding an appreciating other cultural perspectives.

I totally agree with what @Discountclaimed has advised. I’m a mix of two European countries and have had subtle racism from both sides of my family. My parents always challenged family members on it and I learnt to do the same. Show your children how wonderful it is to be a part of two cultures, learn both languages and go to the counties, and also teach them that racism isn’t ok and it’s ok to challenge it. You sound really proactive OP, I’m sure you’ll do best by them.

*countries not counties