Do you believe in ghosts/paranormal?

[Glitterandpolkadots]

I am curious to know if people do believe in ghosts/paranormal? If you do, what made you believe in it?

I think I do. Have had odd things happen. Once went to a campsite up by Blackpool, very odd atmosphere as soon as we arrived, we all just felt flat. I couldn't sleep one night due to snoring and I saw a bright white light/figure outside the tent and a childlike voice saying it hurts over and over again. Just couldn't wait to leave.

And even after accepting that the paranormal might be an actual thing, you still don't "rush to attribute" anything out of the ordinary to woo; you do what you've always done, and try to find a rational explanation

And then when you can't find a rational explanation, rather than accepting that something isn't easily explained, you somehow conclude that the explanation is something ambiguous, nebulous, completely lacking in credibility, and then wonder why people mock you and sneer at you?

I used the term 'rush' in the sense that some 'believers', whether that is religion or woo, seem to need to attribute an explanation to absolutely everything that is unexplained. It's not about the length of time spent deliberating, it's about the apparent inability to accept that it's perfectly normal not to be able to explain certain phenomenon.

It's this 'rush' to come to any sort of conclusion, no matter how improbable, simply for the sake of having an explanation which is ridiculous and provokes the sneering response.

'I don't know' is an infinitely more sensible, credible, and reasonable conclusion than 'ghosts'. We've got a great example in here. 2 instances across an adults lifetime, conclusion = ESP. I've lost count the number of times I've had dreams or random thoughts that turned out to have no relevance or relation to reality. The few times I have had ones that then later became reality are the phenomenon known as 'coincidence' nothing more. I have no ability whatsoever to 'communicate' over extended distances with relatives, 'sense' events I have no prior knowledge of, or predict the future, and neither does any other human being on the planet. To conclude it's ESP or some sort of psychic power when you are no physiologically different to any one else and the phenomenon of coincidence is well understood, is not only risible, but it's completely pompous. It's no wonder people mock and sneer.

@Lweji

You look for a plausible explanation You can't find one So you start to acknowledge that there might be something to this umbrella term called psi

It only shows lack of knowledge, either by the person or by science in general.
It doesn't mean there's any woo involved.

"lack of knowledge"

Interesting choice of phrase.

One school of thought on psi is that there are ways of knowing that science is only just beginning to recognise and explore. So, rather than a "lack of knowledge" it may actually be that the person is able to access "knowledge" using ways that are not generally recognised yet.

And then when you can't find a rational explanation, rather than accepting that something isn't easily explained, you somehow conclude that the explanation is something ambiguous, nebulous, completely lacking in credibility, and then wonder why people mock you and sneer at you?

The mocking and sneering is fully down to the person doing it, not their target.

The mocking response is caused by the belief that they are superior to those who do paranormal

No, it's caused by incredulity that seemingly mentally normal grown adults can seriously entertain conclusions with zero credibility.

If a child told you their imaginary friend did it, you'd smile and knowingly accept their explanation, even though you know it's nonsense. Why on earth are people expected to accept equally as ridiculous and incredulous claims from adults?

Yes I believe & I'm old enough not to care what others think.

The mocking and sneering is fully down to the person doing it, not their target

If people want to stop being ridiculed, they could stop being ridiculous.

You never believe until things happen that make you question your beliefs.

I work with the elderly & the amount of people who’ve told me the same story about their deceased dh coming back to see them after death & they’ve woken up to see their dh there smiling at them.

I’ve lost loads of relatives, never once woken to see them looking at me.

Zero credibility according to who @XDownwiththissortofthingX?

@TooBigForMyBoots

Not according to 'who', according to what. The what being science.

@Laiste

''Ghosts'' is a childish easily dismissed word which doesn't adequately encompass the subject of the paranormal IMO.

Despite having lots of odd experiences I was always firmly in the camp of 'i'm sure there is a boring explanation - but still it's a good laugh having a woo story'. One of them wasn't a good laugh, thinking about it, but i was still more comfortable being in the sceptical camp.

But about 10 years ago a couple of experiences in the same building involving physical objects shook me. Then an incident which DH and i both shared when out one day has made me seriously question what we consider to be 'super'natural.

So in answer to the question do i believe? The answer is i have been forced to believe there is more going on than is generally scientifically accepted at the moment.

Oh do tell!!

What science are you talking about?

Bookmark

I dont know what I believe re the paranormal but I do believe in love and that cant be proved under scientific conditions either.

I don't believe or disbelieve. I think it'd be great if things existed that were different to the norm.

I've no idea why people are so sneery about these things, must be really boring to dismiss everything and anything unusual.

@Iamthewombat

Nobody on this thread claims that current science can explain absolutely everything, but the number of people claiming to have lived in haunted houses or worked in haunted shops or hospitals or whatever doesn’t line up with the fact that none of this alleged activity has ever been scientifically demonstrated or proved. Why do you think that is?

Have you heard of Occam’s Razor? It says that the most likely explanation (i.e. that the supposed ghost activity has never been proved because, er, there are no such things as ghosts) is probably the correct explanation.

How do you think these experiences could be scientifically proved exactly? Bring team of camera men and recordists in on the off chance that a guide might appear? These things are random. They happen sometimes once and never again. Or at odd times. Ghosts don’t appear to order.

Ghost

@TooBigForMyBoots

What science are you talking about?

Not sure what you mean by 'what science'.

Yes I believe.
Many years ago when my baby died I wasn't coping very well. I was full of grief and heart broken. A close friend of mine said her DSis went along to see this woman. She was a medium and really helped her when she also loss her child a fee years before my DS died.
At first I was very sceptical but then I decided to go along. This lady did not want to know anything about me and when I sat down she asked me politely if I could not just listen and not speak until she had finish. When she started to talk, it was unreal. She new everything about my sons death, how he died of an infection and so much more about family. My FIL died a few years before and she told me of his sudden death, how he died. Then she said, I was pregnant with another DS and he will be born in August. This was November so no way was I showing and I was adamant she was wrong. I was pregnant and my DS was born in August. Also she told me of future family events. Dates of Weddings and a Christening. The one thing she gave me was peace. I felt heart broken for a very long time but she did help me. She retired after a while and I always wonder how did she know. I was definitely a non-believer or thought it was a money making scheme but this lady was genuine.

I've no idea why people are so sneery about these things, must be really boring to dismiss everything and anything unusual

Nobody IS dismissing anything unusual. It's accepted fact that unexplained phenomenon occur and exist. Where the sneering comes in is when some people conclude that these unexplained phenomenon are caused by things that there is no credible reason to believe actually exist.

As I said, nobody sneers at anybody that says "I saw something I can't explain, and I have no idea what it was", as that is perfectly believable, rational, and somewhat credible. When someone says "I saw something and have concluded that it was my granny coming back from the dead to pass on a message that DH had left the gas cooker on", err no. That isn't believable, isn't rational, and isn't credible.

It's not about doubting someone witnessed an event, it's about evaluating the conclusion they draw from it. There's no reason at all to suspect any of these events are down to the paranormal, so that is an utterly bizarre conclusion for anyone to come to when "I don't know" is perfectly sufficient and entirely credible.

Not according to 'who', according to what. The what being science.

Science is a very specific discipline, what scientific reports or studies are you talking about?

I neither believe nor disbelieve but have had a couple of strange experiences.

A couple of months after Mum died suddenly, totally unexpectedly, I was sitting in our conservatory (in a different part of the country) having a bit of a weep and wondering to myself if, if it was possible, she would ever try and send me a message when a soft female voice right next to me said "she never leaves home" very clearly. It actually made me jump. There was no one else at home. Detached house so it couldn't have been something I heard from a neighbour. It wasn't Mum's voice either.

Ever since we moved here, both DH and I catch sight out of the corner of our eyes, someone coming to our kitchen door. There is never anyone there. It has also happpened when we have visitors who have said they think someone is coming to the door, so it's not just us.

The most comforting one is feeling our cat jumping up onto the bed and making himself comfortable. He died 30 years ago and I still feel him a couple of time a year. And whenever I dream about Mum she is always holding our cat.

@TooBigForMyBoots

Not according to 'who', according to what. The what being science.

Science is a very specific discipline, what scientific reports or studies are you talking about?

Pardon?

I'm not talking about scientific reports or studies, I'm referring to the fact that there aren't any that in any way support the notion that 'ghosts', 'spirits' or 'the afterlife' are in any way an actual thing. Not any credible ones anyway. Plenty of crackpot rubbish out there purporting to be 'science'.

It's not down to science to disprove these things, the onus is on the people making extraordinary claims to provide extraordinary evidence, so far they haven't managed to produce a single thing, so the only conclusion any reasonable person can draw is that it's total nonsense and that any conclusion that draws on it can be completely disregarded.

@XDownwiththissortofthingX

I've no idea why people are so sneery about these things, must be really boring to dismiss everything and anything unusual

Nobody IS dismissing anything unusual. It's accepted fact that unexplained phenomenon occur and exist. Where the sneering comes in is when some people conclude that these unexplained phenomenon are caused by things that there is no credible reason to believe actually exist.

As I said, nobody sneers at anybody that says "I saw something I can't explain, and I have no idea what it was", as that is perfectly believable, rational, and somewhat credible. When someone says "I saw something and have concluded that it was my granny coming back from the dead to pass on a message that DH had left the gas cooker on", err no. That isn't believable, isn't rational, and isn't credible.

It's not about doubting someone witnessed an event, it's about evaluating the conclusion they draw from it. There's no reason at all to suspect any of these events are down to the paranormal, so that is an utterly bizarre conclusion for anyone to come to when "I don't know" is perfectly sufficient and entirely credible.

Who are you to "evaluate" other people's experiences?

Who are you to decide what might be possible or not and what it is?

Sounds very sneery to me.

I pity you to be honest. Must be crap to never accept anything other than your own narrow views.

Supernatural is the unexplained - a gap in our knowledge. (The sun sinking into the sea and rising each day used to be supernatural. Lightening in storms was supernatural - from the finger of a God of course.)

We humans do like to have a narrative and explain things to ourselves... but there are matters that need explaining not everything is solved yet.

I am a natural skeptic - but have had unexplained experiences.

Our family was haunted by a smokey smell - that came with us from one of our homes to others we moved to. It happened occasionally over about 5 years. No-one here smokes or ever has. There were no carpets or curtains in one of the rooms it happened in. The smokey smell particularly occurred when one child was unwell.

On the first occasion (in the night) I felt a presence in the room and could smell cigarette smoke strongly. It frightened me -I held my child tight and asked empty space to leave us. When I went back to my bed much later (and feeling silly for my outburst) my DH woke, sniffed and asked in sleepy astonishment if I'd been smoking.

Who are you to "evaluate" other people's experiences?

I'm perfectly within my rights to. After all, if you are publicly making a claim, you can't very well turn around and demand that the people you are making that claim to don't scrutinise it.

Who are you to decide what might be possible or not and what it is?

I've never claimed that's within my gift, so I'm not sure why you are implying I have. I happily accept any hypothesis that can demonstrate it's likely based in reality. 'Paranormal' completely falls at this hurdle, which is why I'm comfortable dismissing it as nonsense.

Sounds very sneery to me

If I sound sneery, then that's probably because I'm sneering. I make no apologies for that and will continue to do it where I choose.

I pity you to be honest. Must be crap to never accept anything other than your own narrow views

I neither want nor need your pity, because I'm perfectly happy with my own beliefs (or non-beliefs as the case might be). As for 'narrow views', believing in science is 'narrow minded' somehow? Love to see your working on that one.