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Conversion Therapy ban scrapped - break it down for me please?

19 replies

musicalfrog · 31/03/2022 20:50

Seen this in the news. It's a complete unknown for me but I'd like to know more if anyone could throw some light please?

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MrsPear · 31/03/2022 21:03

Right it was sold that it would stop the hideous crime of telling gay people there is a cure or attempting to cure gay people and make them happy straight people. But the way it was worded was problematic- many people argued that it would prevent qualified therapists from exploring the reason people, children in particular, why they thought of themselves as trans. It seems that /surprise surprise / that the world is still largely homophobic and identifying as trans is seen as a get out clause for many. See here

MoonOnASpoon · 31/03/2022 21:06

In brief – a proposed law would have banned "conversion therapy" i.e., traditionally, the practice of trying to make someone be straight instead of gay. Which most liberal people would agree is a good thing to ban. It was/is usually practised by religious groups and was more common in the past.

However, the proposed law also applied to being trans, and many people saw that as a problem because if a young person identifies as trans, it's well-known that they often change their minds later, and there's a lot at stake as medication and surgery can cause irreversible changes. But the conversion therapy law when applied to this situation, would have meant a doctor or therapist would be forced to always "affirm" or agree the person was trans and give them medication/surgery if they wanted it. To even discuss possible reasons why they felt that way and/or consider other factors in them not feeling happy about their body (such as sexual abuse or trauma, or social contagion which is common in schools now) would be "conversion therapy" and so illegal.

There's also the issue that some kids who are gay have been known to be pushed towards being trans by parents who don't want a gay child, because that way they get a "straight" child. So in that way, a trans identity can actually be a kind of conversion therapy in itself.

If gay (LGB) and trans (T) had been dealt with separately, it wouldn't have been such a mess. They are very different things and involve different needs and there has been a lot of protest about the whole thing because of that – not because people are generally pro-conversion therapy.

There are various threads discussing it in detail as it's been under discussion for a few months.

purpleme12 · 31/03/2022 21:08

Wow I didn't know the trans thing was in with this
Why on earth did they put it in with this then??

MoonOnASpoon · 31/03/2022 21:13

Well, that's a good question but LGB has been lumped in with T for a long time and trans activists often argue that being trans is just like being gay, and have convinced a lot of institutions and politicians of this. They often also argue that anyone who doesn't accept gender ideology is a bigot along the same lines as a homophobic bigot (despite the fact that many of those people are themselves gay).

musicalfrog · 31/03/2022 21:26

Thank you this sound like a positive move?

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UnWilly · 31/03/2022 21:30

I saw this on another thread about this earlier

sex-matters.org/posts/the-legal-system/opposing-the-return-of-gay-conversion-therapy-a-lawyers-view/

Cwenthryth · 31/03/2022 21:32

Here is a well written Twitter thread explaining it as well

twitter.com/nmdacosta/status/1509576587825627143?s=21

Squiff70 · 31/03/2022 21:35

It means the government are homophobic and transphobic arseholes. That's all the breakdown you may need!

Mysterioso · 31/03/2022 21:44

Homophobic and transphobic huh? Give a dog a bad name for putting safe guarding first then kill it, I guess.

Cwenthryth · 31/03/2022 21:45

And another twitter.com/jamesesses/status/1509594930964049926?s=21

WiseUpJanetWeiss · 31/03/2022 21:58

@Squiff70

It means the government are homophobic and transphobic arseholes. That's all the breakdown you may need!
Hmm. It's a bit more complicated than that. Conversion therapy to turn lesbians and gay men into straight people is obviously abhorrent. Love is love, and bodily autonomy is bodily autonomy.

The concern is that this bill would have also made anything other than the affirmation-only model for the care of trans people also illegal. So a therapist or clinician exploring the possibility of clients, especially children, of their maybe being gay, and of not embarking on hormone treatment and possible surgery to remove health body parts, may have been construed to be conversion therapy and hence illegal.

There's also a bit of a grey area where transitioning may actually be conversion therapy. Homophobic parents may prefer to "trans the gay away". Any law would need to be able to outlaw this as well.

PronounssheRa · 31/03/2022 22:03

@purpleme12

Wow I didn't know the trans thing was in with this Why on earth did they put it in with this then??
Dentons handbook.

www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-document-that-reveals-the-remarkable-tactics-of-trans-lobbyists

Nubnamechange · 31/03/2022 22:15

Given that the alignment with T is clearly why they’ve made this move, I’d argue the TRAs have really fucked the LGB community here. Another situation where they just don’t work when lumped under the same umbrella.

MoonOnASpoon · 31/03/2022 22:16

Squiff, if govt were homophobic and transphobic, why start this process in the first place, which they did, probably with good intentions. The issues that have been raised about the possible unintended consequences and complexities have been raised to protect people, especially minors, from making very serious mistakes. There are thousands of people agonisingly regretting those same mistakes right now, which is how we know it's a thing.

Changing your mind about being gay has no such disastrous consequences. They are different things and need different approaches.

Do you disagree that transitioning is sometimes used to try to avoid gayness, and so can be used as conversion therapy itself?

JulesRimetStillGleaming · 31/03/2022 22:23

Lots of autistic and 'pre gay' children are gender non conforming. So basically an affirmation only model means that if these children say they're trans then it would be considered illegal/ conversion therapy to explore with them whether they actually might not be.

I am one of those children who grew up to be same sex attracted and am autistic. I've been vigorously campaigning against this legislation because it didn't contain enough safeguards to protect children like I was.

AssignedBlobbyAtBirth · 31/03/2022 22:26

It's just been on R4 that the legislation is going through but without the T

StScholastica · 31/03/2022 22:40

@AssignedBlobbyAtBirth

It's just been on R4 that the legislation is going through but without the T
Well that seems sensible.
Nubnamechange · 31/03/2022 22:46

@AssignedBlobbyAtBirth Oh best of both worlds! Fantastic.

musicalfrog · 31/03/2022 23:05

Think I get it now. Thank you all.

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