My four year old seems really unhappy

[WeOnlyTalkAboutBruno]

I’m at a total loss.

I have a daughter who is 4 and half. She is due to start school in the autumn and she is really looking forward to it. She’s at nursery four days per week. Really good nursery, used it with her older sister too. Know the staff well and never had any issues.

The past few weeks, 4’s behaviour has taken a nosedive. She is shouting and screaming at us. Winding up and fighting with her sister (they are very close). Refusing to go to sleep - “it’s boring I hate sleep”. Doing silly, naughty things for no reason like covering her bed sheets in sudocreme or drawing on walls.

She has always been a bit wild and a “big personality” as they say, but she’s generally a happy and affectionate wee thing so this is pretty out of character. The shouting is insane. Saying things like I’ll kill you to her dad (purely because he went in to sit with her until she fell asleep), accusing him of hitting her (when he was nowhere near her). She’s not hearing this sort of thing at home.

She seems to like nursery (who say she is an angel there) but I suspect that she is also a bit bored with it. I heard that this can impact on behaviour. She hasn’t articulated any sort of issue to me about nursery (and she is pretty bright and articulate in general). She’s absolutely desperate to read and write like her sister. I’ve been trying to show her but her attention span isn’t great yet. She’s made a bit of progress though.

In the meantime, my 8 year old (who is a more quiet personality) is also unhappy because 4 is dominating everything at the moment. We don’t get any time together any more. Last night she said to me “why is everything always about her?”

Ahhh why is it so hard.

My girl is exactly the same age and also does four days at nursery. Her behaviour is very hit and miss! She shouts at us also sometimes when she loses control. I chalk it up to the age and being very tired from nursery, she has long days. Does your eldest see you respond consistently to naughty behaviour like spreading sudocrem around? I find I subconsciously let things go a bit with my youngest (she’s small and cute and young!) and it was upsetting my older child who thought I wasn’t telling her off enough for naughty stuff so now I try and be more fair.

To be totally honest I’m at a loss as to how to deal with the bad behaviours I’ve never really had to before! In those moments she absolutely does not care about anything. There are no consequences that really bother her.

She shouldn't be bored... Preschool is for playing, fine motor etc surely? I would try to look into whether something has happened to upset her? Where has she heard these fairly extreme things for her age? Definitely ask a few questions on it. Could just be another child in nursery.. Also wondering what her sleep is like.

Her sleep is not great. She’s going to sleep far too late. She has a good bedtime routine and is in bed by seven, half past at the latest. She then carries on until sometimes ten o’clock.

You can do everything in your power to foster good sleep but at the end of the day you can’t force them to go to sleep. It’s so frustrating.

She is signalling distress. She's said she hates a man (Dad who she loves and trusts and can safely tell she hates him without fear).

Could be a clue. Maybe she's been upset by, and talking about, some other man . Someone she's too scared of to shout at him..

I'd have a think about any "trusted" (by you) male social contacts in her social circle.

Friendly neighbours, social-uncle pals of your DH, the dads or big brothers or mum BF's she meets when playing at the home of her little friends.

My daughter is four and and a half there seems to be a lot of boundary pushing and experimental behaviour recently. She also repeats odd slightly violent things from TV shows that she’s never watched but her friends have. I don’t think you need to be looking for a child abuser in your circle just yet. It seems like a normalish phase to me.

Ejaculated semen from sudocreme is a bit of a leap.

Wtf @2bazookas that is a massive stretch

No. Only place she’s stayed is with her grandparents (and hasn’t actually done that for months)

Good grief! The last two comments by @2bazookas are awful.

It sounds like she’s stroppy and perhaps is a little indulged because you know what might kick off.

Firm boundaries and stick to them.

I suspect she used sudocreme because I left it within her reach tbh.

DSS went through this phase at 4.5 - even went so far as saying he would kill himself and make DP sad (angrily shouting it at him). He was horrendous. Then he started reception and started sleeping better and now it only comes out when he's very tired.

DS(3.5) is just starting to go through it. He's a bit less articulate (lots of screaming that myself or DP are not his best friend). Hopefully it passes. His behavior is horrendous. The eldest DSS did not go through this phase so it seems child dependent rather than just a phase to me.

@2bazookas Are you drunk? This is the second thread I've read today with an awful/absurd post by you.

This sounds like typical sleep deprived behaviour. Can you mix things up a little? Bedtime routine - long bubble Bath, take her for a night walk in her pjs, banana and milk, audible story in bed with a different parent to normal, lots of praise, sister elsewhere with other parent.

[quote Hugasauras]@2bazookas Are you drunk? This is the second thread I've read today with an awful/absurd post by you. [/quote]
I've reported the post as inappropriate

Start the bedtime routine earlier and have tea earlier

Does she have bad dreams when she sleeps? That could explain the avoiding/playing up at bedtime, maybe have a chat and try “monster spray” or worry dolls etc if it’s that? Also low dose melatonin in gummy form 20 minutes before bed if there are hyperactivity concerns.

Also turn off the lights and draw curtains where possible early evening so all the prompts are there for bedtime.

It’s good that she behaves well at nursery because that means she isn’t actually distressed. It sounds like she gets a lot of attention for her behaviour which rewards her for it (even negative attention reinforces behaviour). First time she gets out of bed, say “it’s bedtime darling” AND NOTHING ELSE, and return her to it. For all the following times she does it, return her with no communication at all. Don’t get sucked into discussion whatsoever. Do it as many times as necessary, every night for as long as it takes for her to get the message that she isn’t going to be rewarded with attention for staying up. If she covers her sheets in cream, say nothing, just change the bed without engaging in any conversation at all. I wouldn’t even give her a consequence - it’s too late in the evening and by morning she’ll have no idea what it was for. Consequences should follow immediately and you can’t do that at 10pm! I suspect her behaviour in the day will improve once she gets a good amount of sleep.

I think you and your husband should each take your older daughter out on your own so that she gets some time with each of you without her sister there.

DD is about the same stage (starting school in Sept) and although it's not quite as extreme I've noticed a real decline in her behaviour and a LOT of boundary-pushing which is very out of character for her. I really do think it's because she's ready for the greatest stimulation of school - she's desperate to learn to read and really leaning in to educational activities. I've increased the amount of time I spend doing things like that with her and that seems to have helped a bit - I've also hugely increased her outdoor time which doesn't help her behaviour (in fact it makes it worse I think, because she's physically exhausted!) but it does mean she falls asleep much more quickly!

Chamomile tea is soothing and helps with sleeping if you can get her to drink it early evening. Make sure she has a wee at bedtime though.

I reported the semen comment and probably others did to. Please don’t let that ridiculous notion bother you.

I don't have advice really but my DD will be turning 4 in the summer and is going through a similar phase. I think it's just sort of age related really. She definitely does get worries about things which can impact her behaviour and sleep, I think this is age related as when she was younger I guess she didn't have so much capacity to worry about future things like she can now. Last night for example she woke up crying in the night and we had a bit of a carry on as she didn't want me to leave her room, when I dug a bit it turned out she was worrying that she was going to be in a different room at nursery today (she wasn't - but she is moving there next week). I try to show compassion whenever I can because she's not trying to be naughty she is doing a mixture of experimenting and just releasing her negative emotions in the only ways she knows how and they have limited impulse control.

If she gets so upset she doesn’t care about consequences it sounds like she is overwhelmed and exhausted. Have you tried sympathising and a cuddle? Easier said then done when they’re in a full on rage!