I'm going to say it: There's a class divide in the Will Smith incident

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I have a wide social circle.

What I've noticed today on social media is those from blue collar/working class backgrounds are defending Will Smith's actions, the women saying "he's a real man" "that's what men should do", "he was defending her" and those from white collar backgrounds/middle classes completely condemning Will's actions as pure unadulterated violence/assault.

Both obviously agreeing Chris' joke was in bad taste and not funny.

What's everyone else's experience been from their social media reactions?

A "real man" would have walked out with dignity in protest. Only thugs resort to violemce, staged or otherwise

@TatianaBis

Pretty happy to stand by my opinion that having a shaved head isn't a disability, and I find it offensive for people to talk about it like it is, thanks.

@peachgreen

None of those comparisons work though, *@moonbedazzled*. There's a power imbalance between a teacher and a child. There's a domestic relationship between a husband and wife, as well as a gender difference. And insulting someone's cooking isn't the same as insulting an aspect of their appearance which has been impacted by a health condition. They're not the same thing.

And that's the whole point. Every situation will be different. If you say it's OK to slap someone who has insulted you, you are always going to get disparities between ages, sexes, weight, height, stature, status. If you say it's OK for a man to be slapped by another man, then it must follow that it's OK for a man to be slapped by a woman. Is it therefore OK if that woman is a six foot weightlifter hitting a weedy 5ft guy? Or if it's not ok for a wife to slap her husband in a domestic situation but it's OK for her to go into the office and slap a colleague? If it's not OK for the teacher to slap a student because of a power imbalance, is it OK if a student smacks another student? Or the student smacks the teacher? And if the chef was a woman or the complainant was a man, would hitting them be acceptable?

By saying that the chef's perceived insult about their ability isn't as bad as an insult about their appearance, not only have you already decided who can assault whom based on their status, gender and relationship, but you're now starting to codify what people can be physically assaulted for. But who gets to say who feels the most insult? Can I hit someone who calls me a thief when I'm not? That's insulting and demeans me in front of my peers and harms my reputation. Does that deserve a slap or a punch?

Of course all the insults, the aggressors and the victims are not all the same and not all equal. That will always be the case because we're not all equal in every way. But if you accept that hitting is acceptable, you can't expect people to control their tempers and hit discriminatingly. They're just going to hit whoever because they never need learn control. But you don't seem to be saying that anyone can hit anyone, you have an idea in mind that certain individuals should be barred from hitting other certain individuals. Maybe you have a grading system of who can hit who, how hard and over what. But how do you quantify it in law? How do you measure the weight of the insult, against the weight of the aggressor against the weight of the victim against the weight of the strike?

You can't. It's too complicated and subjective. And that's why it's important that striking another person is against the law.

This is a very long reponse but I've given it a lot of thought when I really should have been cleaning the house! 🙄

@moonbedazzled
What you have written is far more interesting than housework! You are correct. Violence cannot be tolerated snd there’s no excuse.

Aw, thank you @TizerorFizz. I have multiple ways of avoiding housework! 😄

I agree violence should not be tolerated but we are not yet I believe in that Eutopian society, yet.

Until there are the same protections for slander and malicious words for being as bad as violent acts then there will remain conflict.

Chris Rock made a joke about a very sensitive subject for Jada, highly personal and witnessed by millions, whoever thinks alopcia does not affect women greatly is an idiot.

Her alopecia I presume is some auto imune condition, in other words an illness, would he have mocked someone who had been diagnosed with HIV or cancer or parkinsons, I think not and there would be have been such an outcry, the man is an idiot.
Back to the consequenses, Chris was slapped, very wrong but if Will had not reacted, what would have been Chris's consequenses, I should imagine not many.

The consequenses would have been Jada's to bare, for all we know she may be suffering terrible body dysmorpia from it, this episode will affect her mental health, I'm sure of it and therefor her families.

The law states we must not hit or use violence, that there will be consequenses but from what I see there are many that use words to bully, crush, overpower and intimidate with the use of words. You may wish to quantify those hurtful words just as you quantify the slap, it's very difficult to measure an injustice if you lack understanding.

From what I saw, Will should not have touched Chris, but yes I think he should have called him out on the horrible joke, Chris needed to understand at that moment.

After the fact it wouldn't have worked, the swearing was nothing compared to what Chris did.

variety.com/2022/film/news/will-smith-apologizes-chris-rock-slap-oscars-statement-1235216526/

I think being rude about people in the audience is what you get at these award nights. It’s been tolerated for a long time. It wasn’t the rudest comment either and Will Smith laughed at it. Maybe he really thought his wife would be s brilliant GI Jane? So then he changes his mind. However as an actor surely the words he has at his disposal are what he should have used? Instead we have God snd Love that made him do it! Not surprised he’s now apologised. No doubt told to.

@Onthedunes

I agree violence should not be tolerated but we are not yet I believe in that Eutopian society, yet.

Until there are the same protections for slander and malicious words for being as bad as violent acts then there will remain conflict.

Chris Rock made a joke about a very sensitive subject for Jada, highly personal and witnessed by millions, whoever thinks alopcia does not affect women greatly is an idiot.

Her alopecia I presume is some auto imune condition, in other words an illness, would he have mocked someone who had been diagnosed with HIV or cancer or parkinsons, I think not and there would be have been such an outcry, the man is an idiot.
Back to the consequenses, Chris was slapped, very wrong but if Will had not reacted, what would have been Chris's consequenses, I should imagine not many.

The consequenses would have been Jada's to bare, for all we know she may be suffering terrible body dysmorpia from it, this episode will affect her mental health, I'm sure of it and therefor her families.

The law states we must not hit or use violence, that there will be consequenses but from what I see there are many that use words to bully, crush, overpower and intimidate with the use of words. You may wish to quantify those hurtful words just as you quantify the slap, it's very difficult to measure an injustice if you lack understanding.

From what I saw, Will should not have touched Chris, but yes I think he should have called him out on the horrible joke, Chris needed to understand at that moment.

After the fact it wouldn't have worked, the swearing was nothing compared to what Chris did.

Great post.

Chris had his prepared weapon of choice in the word arrows he was going to shoot at Jada. He knew very well she is not a comedian or someone who does commentary - none of them are, so he was comfortable in the knowledge that there could be no quick comeback.
(you will notice that no one actually 'roasts' comedians themselves, not in an ambush situation like this anyway. Imagine the comeback from 'their own' comedians like Ricky, Noah, Eddie, Franky etc.)
Chris knew neither Jada nor Will could match his pre-prepared speech with words. They were once again supposed to sit there and take it.

Controversially (and I am not condoning, but) sometimes you have to know as you are preparing your weapons, your enemy may not have the same ammunition (words) as you do. I think that was the realisation from Chris, and why he did not press charges.

It's only comedy if everyone agrees that it is. We all know of a child who was driven to bits by bullying, some unfortunately know someone who committed suicide. It's a hard one to classify, but at some point we should see verbal abuse as the 'assault' that it truly is.

@TizerorFizz

I think being rude about people in the audience is what you get at these award nights. It’s been tolerated for a long time. It wasn’t the rudest comment either and Will Smith laughed at it. Maybe he really thought his wife would be s brilliant GI Jane? So then he changes his mind. However as an actor surely the words he has at his disposal are what he should have used? Instead we have God snd Love that made him do it! Not surprised he’s now apologised. No doubt told to.

Yes maybe Chris could have singled out an overweight woman in the audience and thought they'd make a great lovable Dumbo, or an actress whose known for having bad skin could be the next Elephant man.

The difference is it was Demi Moore's choice to shave her head, Jada has no choice because of her illness and she is an older woman, the lack of awareness is astounding.

Maybe this will highlight the plight of women with alopecia, it maybe the only good thing to come out of it.

Even men hate being ridiculed for the wigs and the transplants, it really isn't a joke, I also do not believe he was ignorant to her plight.

This roasting was too close to the bone and will be on social media forever a reminder of her humiliation, Chris was humiliated back.

That himiliation for Chris needed to be kept for posterity, just as Jada's would have been. The retort had to happen that night.

Has Chris apologised to Jada ? He'll probably be too busy trying to rebuf Jada in some future comedy sketch, whilst leaving Will alone.

Violence ? No
But definitely called out, Yes.

@AnnesBrokenSlate

I've seen the complete opposite. Young, middle class, 'creative' people defending it because they equate words with 'actual violence' ; seem to think a 'man defending his woman' is romantic rather than toxic; and they have no RL experience of being in close proximity to violence.

The working class people I know and the professionals who work on DV, in the courts and with social services, have all been appalled by Will's actions. But they're much more attuned to abusive relationships; alert to the risk of violence and how it can escalate.

Tbh I think this thread is in bad taste. It seems like a tired attempt to find a new angle on the incident whilst being goady. There is literally nothing in any of the media coverage to support your initial assertion and much to disprove it.

Yep I work in family law dealing with mostly care and protection matters, and this incident was awful for so many reasons.

#1 WS wasn't out of control during the slap, it was very very deliberate and reminiscent of how I've seen men establish and exercise control with patterned, deliberate violence - it doesn't have to bruise to have the desired effect;

#2 being confident that he could do something like that in public and get away with it;

#3 then seemingly losing control, shouting & swearing aggressively;

#4 "get my wife's name outa your mouth" - making it about him, his ego and his wife as his property;

#5 going back to normal, acting like nothing happened (any child of an abusive household knows that scenario intimately);

#6 everyone else acting like nothing happened, no immediate consequence at all for assault on live tv;

#7 possibly worst of all - "love will make you do crazy things". I've seen that sentiment over and over and over in my line of work, usually via texts as justification from the perpetrator to the victim for acts of verbal, emotional, psychological, financial, physical and sexual abuse. And here one of the biggest stars in the world platformed it and legitimized it on live tv - with NO pushback from anyone at the time. None. In fact he was applauded for it.

For what it's worth I think both men were wrong. But WS - holy heck. And as for CR "deserving it" - most perpetrators believe their victim deserves whatever they're dishing out. They make sure the victim knows it too. It's not exactly a good benchmark for deciding acceptable behavior.

@Skydaze
I agree with all your points.

Will Smiyh laughed at this “joke” at the beginning!! He didn’t have any thought for his wife at that point at all. From that point it was about him.

The Oscars and other award ceremonies need to move away from “roasting” routines. I also have a slightly ? feeling about a hugely confident woman posing for the cameras and having fantastic photos taken of her all the time then being really upset about a few words saying she would be a great GI Jane. She is very much a “look at me” person (as they all are) so it seems an over the top reaction from her husband. The basic message is though that roasting should stop.

Great post skydaze - he’s absolutely modelled and normalised abusive behaviour. I don’t know why it was tolerated - he should have been removed by security, Oscar given in absentia and prosecuted. That absolutely would have happened if it had been a woman he hit, and I also think it would have happened if it had been a white man hitting a black man, because those in authority would have been able to see that as bad. It’s still just as bad whoever he hit IMO - CR launched no physical attack on him.

I also think making a speech about it was appalling taste. He must have absolutely zero sense of humility. Just apologise and get off stage.

I'm working class and I don't agree with violence. Lovely bit of stereotyping there op 🙄

Instead of keep discussing who was wrong the most why isn't anyone talking about how demeaning it is to women to have a man violently hit another all under the guise of 'honour' I would not be honoured if my dh did something like this. I am a strong capable woman who can handle herself I have never needed a man to step in and defend me. It takes us as women right back to the dark ages.

I do think actors and celebrities think very one knows what is going on in their lives.
Whilst the alopecia might have been spoken about on a show i think it is presumptuous to think that everyone knows something

Maybe CR didn’t know Jada had alopecia. Discussing this with a group, all bar one person thought the shaved head was a fashion statement or for a movie role.