DD12 has been called to give evidence in a crime she witnessed.

[Jobhelpplease]

DD12 was out for a walk last summer and witnessed a crime, not mass murder but scary enough that the victim’s legal team did originally try to go for attempted murder, this has now been dropped to common assault.

Obviously it was quite traumatising for DD at the time but she had video’d part and explained the situation, crime well when the police came round to take some details and we were told that she might be called to give evidence.

I’d actually forgot all about it until I got a phone call last week to say that the hearing was today and if the perpetrator pleaded NG it would be going to trial and DD would definitely have to go to court, which is exactly what’s happened and a court date has now been set.

I have absolutely no experience in this and until I got the email today from the the whiteness protection team presumed that this would either all blow over and even if DD was called giving evidence would be voluntary and not mandatory but it seems not.

They have said because of her age there are procedures they can put in place, screens have been mentioned and live video links but they haven’t given me any reassurance to my biggest worry (even though I’ve mentioned it about 4 times to different people) that where we live is not where we are from and her accent is very distinctive and would stick out like a sore thumb.
(Think northern Irish accent in Birmingham type of contrast)

DD doesn’t know either the victim or person that committed the crime so I’m not worried about her being recognised so to speak but I do have concern that it would make it easier if someone wanted to find her.

I think now that I feel the decision to allow my daughter to be a witness has been taken out of my hands, that a court date has now been sent that no one is really taking my concerns even though they are probably based on watching far too many BBC crime dramas seriously is making me feel a bit sick.

Is anyone able to reassure, give advice or have found theirselves of loved ones in a similar situation?

I would love to hear the answer to this. How worrying.
I’m sure people will say that if everyone refused to testify, crime would go unpunished.
But is it the place of a 12 year old to put herself at risk? Especially if you have not been reassured by anyone.
Worst case scenario she could be “unwell” on the date….

Maybe her voice could be disguised or she could give a signed written statement. Surely there must be procedures in place for this type of scenario.

My dc and two friends had to give evidence as a victim in a robbery trial with two defendants (I also had to give evidence as well as I managed to obtain important evidence that led to the arrests). The CPS solicitor, the defence counsel x 2 and the judge all were introduced to us before we saw them in court, the judge in particular went out of his way to be kind to them as he knew they were young and nervous.

We were all given a bit of a grilling by the defence on a particular aspect but that was due to circumstance. The boys all have their evidence screened, I chose not to.

I was a bit concerned as my child is quite distinctive looking and stands out from the crowd- and it was a while before he stopped wearing a hood or hat outside the house. Even though he was screened in court I was a bit nervous that the perpetrators might remember him from the actual crime but to be honest they had probably done it a few times and might not be able to distinguish one crime from the next.

We had a call a while afterwards from victim support offering to speak to my son - but to be honest so much time had passed due to Covid at that point I thought it better to let it rest.

Be prepared for a lot of waiting around - it was only on our third day at court we got to give the evidence.

Good luck!

Often what happens is you go along on the day and the prosecuted changes their plee to guilty before the witnesses even need to speak. They usually hop ppl won't show up and then when they realise they have they change their plee. So hopefully she won't even have to speak.

Might be worth a quick chst with a lawyer to see if there is anything we don’t know thet may help - eg can she give written evidence.

On the accent thing, I know it’s ridiculous but would one option be for her to try to speak in a slightly different accent?

@Pinkbonbon

Often what happens is you go along on the day and the prosecuted changes their plee to guilty before the witnesses even need to speak. They usually hop ppl won't show up and then when they realise they have they change their plee. So hopefully she won't even have to speak.

This^

9/10 times this is what happens

In lots of courts now you can ask for pre recorded video evidence, the barristers on each side give the judge a list of questions to consider and they are then approved (or not) and then she will be asked them on video, it means she doesn't have to be anywhere near the court on the day. Also when there is over whelming evidence it's not uncommon for them to plead NG at PCMH and then right before trial go guilty regardless of solicitor's advice. It's not a good legal strategy but where they think the main witness might pull out it's a chance some are willing to take.

I would be getting a solicitor for your child, ASAP.

It happened to me. I was absolutely petrified because I knew the perp. I didn't want to go but had no choice as its mandatory. I posted on here and got absolutely slated that I was letting the victim down, I was a terrible citizen etc etc when I said I didn't want to go as I was so scared of a violent criminal I have to face as I know them. No thought for my mental health.
I really hope posters are kinder and take into consideration that your dd is a child. I really feel for her and you.

Anyway it was just waiting around all day in the witness room. I never saw the perp on the day. I did talk to the victim though who was traumatised. I actually left before sentencing straight after I gave evidence. If I'm honest op it was reliving it all and seeing the Victim that affected me the most. The day itself was fine in that the witness support person was nice. Take drinks and snacks and something to do/read. I did find it all upsetting and cried alot after but mostly because I was scared of the perp.

I will never ever give a statement again if I witness a crime and if that makes me a horrible person then so be it.

You don't need a solicitor for a witness, that's the job of the crown solicitor and barrister!

Did they mention the Witness Service? Under 18s are entitled to their support, they are really good.

@RewildingAmbridge

You don't need a solicitor for a witness, that's the job of the crown solicitor and barrister!

You do when you want to ensure that your child's rights and her safety are being upheld by the court.

@HellToTheNope

I would be getting a solicitor for your child, ASAP.

Why? Witnesses' solicitors don't have any right to be heard in Crown Court trials.

@EthelTheAardvark well I would.
Nit to represent me in court etc… but to have someone on my side taking me through all the stuff that will happen as well as what sort if support I can get.
I would also use them to get answers to questions such as the one from the OP - will her dd be recognisable? What about her own safety? Etc….

It sounds like, atm, the OP and her dd have been told very little and don’t have ways to ask questions to alleviate their worries (apart from this thread which might or might not reflect reality)

@RewildingAmbridge

You don't need a solicitor for a witness, that's the job of the crown solicitor and barrister!

There should be witness support volunteers to help. My daughter, although an adult, was given support as she had a small baby. We were given a room on the day and babysat while she was giving her evidence. Not so traumatic I’ll grant you, but the support should be there.

She may not be called if the lawyers believe they have enough from her already in her statement.

If the only charge is common assault, this is can only be heard in a Magistrates Court. (I.e. not a Crown Court with judge and jury). It is still formal but perhaps a bit less intimidating than CC. No wigs/gowns etc.

You can certainly request screens or a video link and these would be allowed but I suspect it is unlikely that she will be able to just give written evidence if the trial goes ahead she is likely to need to answer questions. However as a PP says, it is certainly possible that the defendant will plead guilty on the day of trial. While this is annoying for the court, it would save your DD having to give evidence.

Ok, first of all don’t panic. I used to work as a Witness Care Officer so have supported hundreds of families where their children have had to give evidence in court. It’s a surprisingly common occurrence and, regardless of what BBC crime dramas make out, is actually a very boring, very procedural thing to take part in. Obviously things are hyped up for television because if they showed how court really is, frankly nobody would watch it 😉

The people who contacted you will be the Witness Care Unit (a special department in your local police force who’s sole purpose is to support victims and witnesses to attend court). They are nothing to do with Witness Protection as that’s a completely different department who deal with relocating witnesses who are at risk of serious harm, giving them new identities, etc. In the nicest possible way, what your daughter has witnessed is nowhere near that level and is something quite run of the mill for a Crown Court, so please don’t worry about that.

As your daughter is under the age of 18, she will be automatically granted what they call ‘Special Measures’ which means special consideration is given by the court to accommodate her age and make it easier for her to give evidence. Most of the time for a kid of her age, she’ll be giving evidence via video link, which means she’ll be sat in a separate room to the main courtroom talking into a camera. The solicitor will be able to ask her questions via the camera but she won’t be able to see the rest of the people in court. Alternatively, she can be taken into the main courtroom and give evidence from behind a screen but I think with her age it’s more than likely they’d opt for video link.

Before the trial date, Witness Care Unit will put you in touch with the Witness Service at the court in question. These are the people who will be looking after you and your daughter on the day you attend court. They have you sat in a separate ‘Witnesses Only’ waiting room so you’re not sat outside in the main waiting area with all the dregs (remember, some larger courts have several courtrooms so often there’s more than one trial going on at the same time, so you’ll see all sorts out there!). The Witness Service can also arrange for you and your daughter to visit the court to have a tour before the trial date so that you can both familiarise yourself with the building, know where the loos are, etc. and just generally make it less daunting for yourselves on the day of the trial. If you live in an area with a particularly old court building, Witness Service often know some really interesting bits of history that they’ll tell you about as they’re showing you round which can be pretty cool.

Either on the day of the trial or sometime before, your daughter will be given the opportunity to read through (or re-watch if it was filmed) her original statement to Police so she can familiarise herself with what she said. When it comes to the actual giving evidence part, if she’s asked a question she doesn’t know/can’t remember the answer to, it’s perfectly ok for her to say, “I’m sorry but I don’t remember”. Nobody expects any witness, regardless of age, to have a photographic memory.

Once your daughter has finished giving evidence, you’ll be sent home and normally somebody from the Witness Care Unit will call you when the trial is over to let you know the verdict.

With regards to your concerns around witness intimidation, I really wouldn’t worry about this. It’s shown a lot on the TV dramas because, again, it makes for interesting watching but in reality it happens very rarely in real life, mainly because if a defendant who has pleaded not guilty goes round and starts intimidating witnesses, it makes them look jolly guilty indeed. Surely an “innocent” person would have nothing to worry about so wouldn’t need to intimidate witnesses? I can assure you that this will have been impressed upon the defendant rather sternly by their solicitor because witness intimidation is taken so seriously by the court. I honestly wouldn’t worry too much about this.

Also, no, your daughter does not need a solicitor. She is a witness, not a defendant, and so will be supported by the Witness Care Unit and Witness Service.

Hope that helps.

There really is no need for her to get her own solicitor. It's not how it works in the UK. A lot of the comments on here are clearly from people who's only knowledge of a court room is TV dramas. The victim also doesn't have a "legal team".

The real things are far less dramatic. If her evidence is video evidence it may well be limited to producing the video. As others have said, a huge number of trials crack on the day because either the witnesses turn up and they plead guilty or the witnesses don't attend.

The CPS have a dedicated witness care service and the courts have special systems they can put in place for child witnesses such as giving evidence in advance, questions she's asked being agreed in advance, screen's etc. You just need to discuss those options with the CPS.
(I'm a criminal lawyer)

The court will be very mindful of your daughters age. She may appear by video link or behind curtains. She may also be referred to as witness A. There can also be an appropriate adult present. It's likely that all she will be asked is her whereabouts on the day and time and to confirm that she had filmed some evidence on her phone. Which the prosecution has already probably downloaded so it can be shown to the court. They will only call her as a last resort if the accused continues to maintain their innocence Request to speak to the CPS lawyer involved in the case, they should be able to speak to you to allay your fears.

@Harlequin1088 's post is very accurate and helpful.

@Blackbirdflyintothelight Thank you ☺️

In cases I've worked on, people regularly give written statements that are read out in court instead of being there in person. You could ask for this. You can also ask for your daughter to be accompanied and give her statement and answers through another person (as if she had an interpreter)

Just read through all your comments, thank you, I feel much better and reassured about it all, @Harlequin1088 yours particularly was very helpful.

So yes it was Witness support (not protection 🙈🤣) that have been in touch over the last year and they have been lovely but I think the gap of time (a mixture I’m presuming of the nature of law and Covid) has meant long periods of time without any contact and I’ve never actually spoke to the same person twice despite each one saying there were going to be there on the day. They also have all said they would find out what the special measures were and would be back in touch and never have but good to know that there will be things put in place.

I’m wondering when PP’s have said she may give her evidence through video link but she won’t be able to see anyone in the court, will they be able to see her?

I know other than the victim there is one other witness. I obviously don’t want to say too much but we are fairly rural and it wasn’t heavily populated where this happened so DD wasn’t just someone in a crowd she also walks the same way to get her bus to school every morning so my inner lioness is definitely there.

@HellToTheNope you clearly know nothing about the English criminal justice system. She cannot have her own solicitor. Crown prosecutors will be provided. Please don't give false advice about serious legal matters.