If you are not British how do you feel about school uniforms?

[katepilar]

It should really be titled if you grew up in a culture with no school uniforms how do you feel about them? Do you like your children having to wear them?
I just dont know, its a very strange concept for me and as I grow older I have to choose clothes carefully to feel comfortable in them. I cant imagine anyone telling me what clothes to wear on so many levels ie skirt/trousers/dress, materials, different shapes etc. Even more concerned about shoes (my English charges long time ago had to choose from about three particular shoe and were told when to wear socks and when to wear tights and I was shocked).

I just remembered all this thinking about Ukrainian children in the UK that will have to buy a uniform to go to school which seem so unreasonable in the circumstances.

@oldwhyno

Uniforms are important for equality and behaviour.

Not everybody likes them, and in since cases the majority don't like them. But that doesn't mean they're not beneficial. People don't always know what's best for them.

Well, that's not patronising at all, nor is it lacking in an evidence base for your initial statement.

@ABitBesotted

hate them. very weird to have them at primary school IMO. Must put an intolerable financial burden on many families, and as for the fucking ironing

School uniform components can be bought very cheaply and something like a blazer is easily available second hand. Although DD went to a private school, most of her uniform came from a supermarket, bar a couple of jumpers that had a badge. Most of it does not need ironing at all

i grew up in england, but we didnt have school uniform until secondary school, and even then they were very relaxed about the specifics of it.
My partner went to school in France and never wore uniform.

We both hate school uniform in general. Primary school was not too bad, with polo shirt in one of 3 colours, and a jumper. My eldest sons SEN school had polo shirt as the uniform. My two teenagers secondary schools are too strict on uniform. The amount of time and money I have spent on bullshit things like school shoes because my autistic children cannot cope with shoes that dont feel right. What on earth is wrong with allowing kids to wear comfortable smart black trainers, or boots. What difference does it make to their learning to wear a school hoodie instead of a blazer if that helps them get through the door in the morning. It drives me insane on a regular basis and I think that the arguments in favour of uniform, while they might help some people, they make it extra extra hard for others.

That's another point - if you were bunking off or indulging in horseplay in public, people knew which school you went to and you could get reported

British but had dc in another EU country and am now a citizen. I had cold legs for the best part of 14 years. At the time I just accepted it as normal but it's ridiculous and sexist. I like the arguments for cohesion and identify but why do they have to be so fucking ridiculous and prescriptive? Why are they wearing shirts and ties and blazers?

My kids have been to school in the UK and abroad so we've had years of both.

The no uniform world = daily teen angst of what to wear, the tyranny of brands, the cost. Also, the kids at their schools abroad all had the same bags, same hair, same jeans, same trainers, same branded tops. It was a tribal uniform, not a playground for freedom and self-expression.

The UK world of uniform = a lot less stress about clothes. Plus they secretly quite like the enforced smartness of a tie & blazer but would rather die than admit it.

Sixth form uniforms are weird though.

The idea that "conformity" somehow presents more of a problem with uniform, than without uniform is bizarre.

Independent schools almost always have strict uniform policies. If it wasn't beneficial they wouldn't.

I really don't like them!

Independent schools almost always have strict uniform policies. If it wasn't beneficial they wouldn't.

How do you explain countries which have very few independent schools, no uniform and a highly successful education system?

Independent schools have strict uniforms so the parents of the students can feel like they are part of an elite and exclusive club. Which of course they are - but it's because of money, not the benefits of uniform.

The no uniform world = daily teen angst of what to wear, the tyranny of brands, the cost. Also, the kids at their schools abroad all had the same bags, same hair, same jeans, same trainers, same branded tops. It was a tribal uniform, not a playground for freedom and self-expression.

Do you think kids have become more angsty? And what are parents teaching their kids to make them so brand obsessed? At my secondary we absolutely did have fashion tribes - but the non-brand obsessed kids formed their own tribe and banded together, and on the whole the ones obsessed with the brands (mainly preppy Lacoste stuff, I am old) didn't behave like entitled little shits over what they were wearing, in part because the school took a tonne of bricks approach to bullying.

@oldwhyno

The idea that "conformity" somehow presents more of a problem with uniform, than without uniform is bizarre.

Independent schools almost always have strict uniform policies. If it wasn't beneficial they wouldn't.

Our neighbour teaches at an independent school. His view is that parents paying lots of money to buy a certain attitude to learning and that comes with the children looking like they are better than others.

He thinks his students are actually worse behaved than the state pupils he taught before. A fancier uniform than what you can buy at M&S does not mean they behave better or learn better. They have strict uniform policies because parents expect it from them.

I do think that putting children in a uniform is to create a sense of conformity. Yes, in my non-uniform secondary we had a certain fashion sense as well, wore similar clothes but there was always the one who stood out and he/she could because there was no rule that you had to be dressed like a child from the Victorian age or a mini-banker.

If you wanted to dress like a goth you could.

I taught in a school with no uniform and loved it. There wasn't much fashion show culture because there was no novelty. Kids near universally wore leggings/ trackie bottoms, trainers, t-,shirts/ vests and hoodies. They were comfortable, practical and no teaching time was lost to policing it.

Strict, zero-tolerance uniform policies waste so much time on policing skirt lengths, ties, blazers, trouser fabric and exploring the deep question of "what is the difference between black lace-up shoes and black trainers?"

Straightforward polo shirts, logo sweatshirts and dark trousers have sadly given way to wanky blazers and ties, often changed regularly due to academy takeovers as the last wanky zero-tolerance uniform failed to magically raise standards and please OFSTED.

Unfortunately we are far out of catchment for our nearest non-uniform school as DS has sensory issues and freedom to wear comfortable clothes will only be of educational benefit to him. I'm dreading a daily battle of getting him into trousers, a smart shirt, restrictive blazer and suffocating tie.

Formal school uniform doesn't even reflect on modern workwear standards.

I love it. It makes things easier in the morning, you know what your kid has to wear and sometimes still have some degree of choice (my DD will choose dress or trousers for example). It is also good that all kids wear the same and that they cannot wear branded items.
I think it is all good to be honest.

@oldwhyno

The idea that "conformity" somehow presents more of a problem with uniform, than without uniform is bizarre.

Independent schools almost always have strict uniform policies. If it wasn't beneficial they wouldn't.

This is because it's British culture. Many of the most expensive US private schools don't have uniforms. Uniform is about image. In London I lived near one grammar school with extremely expensive, distinctive uniform. It got good results... but it wasn't head and shoulders above any other selective school in the area. I dare say having a nearly £100 blazerI just found itmay well have put poor parents off, though.

Independent schools almost always have strict uniform policies. If it wasn't beneficial they wouldn't.

I highly doubt anyone has actually tested this hypothesis. They were probably grandfathered in along with a lot of other traditions with no examination of whether they really play a role in producing a motivated and rule-abiding student body. It's far more likely that the socio-economic bracket the students come from and the expectations of the well-off professional parents who write the cheques play a much larger role than uniforms do in producing the end result.

I second the comment from Knitnerd90 wrt expensive and excellent American private schools.

It's also notable that there are state schools in extremely leafy areas where students turn out perfectly well without the benefit of the powers of the magical uniform.

Actually, you are more likely to find students in inner city schools wearing uniform, whether state or private/parochial. In better off areas the perception is that non-conformity is a good thing, to be encouraged. So no uniforms.

In most RC and other religious-run private schools (where I live these tend to be Lutheran) conformity is considered a desirable trait in the student body. Hence uniforms. Montessori schools here are all mufti. Otoh, I know a child who went to a Montessori school in Dublin which had a very elaborate uniform.

I wore uniform till 12 then went to a school i Europe without any uniform policy. However the demand amongst the peers to fit in was akin to a new set of uniform but much more expensive and difficult to keep up. For example almost everyone wore Diesel Jeans. Boys wore Hugo Boss, Von Dutch, Burberry etc. Girls wore Miss Sixty, Diesel, Zara and lots of Von Dutch. Sexy ones would wear Juicy couture. H&M and anything like that weren’t favoured unless basic T-shirts or socks or fashionable edition like Madonna collaboration. Coats were all north face or Canada goose or luxury brands.
Boys wore expensive watches and girls all had to have expensive handbags as school bag and tremendous makeup (the fresh and no make up look) with pearls/ small diamond studs. Simple sporty look with a hoody, T-shirt, jeans and trainers used to exhaust my entire pocket money allowance.
Money can’t buy you taste/class either, so simply expensive items weren’t good enough. The outfit had to look tasteful or face ridicule for being nouveau riche. No one ever wore the same clothes two days in a role, including shoes. The amount of laundry and dry cleaning!!

My DC are only little and just starting to wear uniform. I love it! Cheap and cheery and soooo sturdy. I can get their trousers and shirts in the supermarkets while doing grocery. Not a single dry cleaning item. Only the jumpers need to be on wool wash. I love their school’s uniforms.

I'm quite conflicted about uniforms. I don't like kids being made to be the same as everyone else and not being allowed to express their own style, and I am really shocked that hairstyles and hair colour is restricted.

On the other hand, my sister and I were picked on at school for wearing unfashionable hand-me-downs or cheaper clothes. There was even one teacher who did it!! I know this is part of the rationale behind uniforms, and it seems somewhat successful.

I didn't grow up in the UK (though I'm British) and I grew up in a country where school uniforms were only ever seen in really posh private schools. I personally love them. What people wore to school was such a minefield growing up and it really showed the haves and the have nots, or at least the people whose parents were concerned with having the right look and presenting the right image. It's so much easier to not have to think about any of that. My dc know what they are wearing every day, and school uniforms are definitely cheaper than other clothes and I don't care as much if they get ruined, as much easier to replace.

I do think there is also something about 'dressing up' for school in the same way as there is for work. My work doesn't have a dress code, but I do wear nicer things in the office than if I'm wfh. My friends' dc in my home country just look like they are off on holiday to school every day, t-shirts, short, flip flops. I think that's too casual and relaxed for a school environment on an every day basis.

@oldwhyno

Uniforms are important for equality and behaviour.

Not everybody likes them, and in since cases the majority don't like them. But that doesn't mean they're not beneficial. People don't always know what's best for them.

But why is there so many problems with behaviour in British schools compared to other European countries? /I go just by my own experience, dont expect me to pull out studies on school behaviour/

@mindutopia

I didn't grow up in the UK (though I'm British) and I grew up in a country where school uniforms were only ever seen in really posh private schools. I personally love them. What people wore to school was such a minefield growing up and it really showed the haves and the have nots, or at least the people whose parents were concerned with having the right look and presenting the right image. It's so much easier to not have to think about any of that. My dc know what they are wearing every day, and school uniforms are definitely cheaper than other clothes and I don't care as much if they get ruined, as much easier to replace.

I do think there is also something about 'dressing up' for school in the same way as there is for work. My work doesn't have a dress code, but I do wear nicer things in the office than if I'm wfh. My friends' dc in my home country just look like they are off on holiday to school every day, t-shirts, short, flip flops. I think that's too casual and relaxed for a school environment on an every day basis.

So do you wear a tie and blazer to work that your boss says you can't take off when it's 28 degrees outside? Do you think that is conducive to a good working environment when kids are so hot and sweaty and trying to concentrate in class?

I wish kids here would wear uniforms, it'd save a ton of washing and would also avoid the obvious 'wealth' gap/divide. There isn't even a dress-code either which the girls seem to take advantage of a little with wearing rather revealing out-fits. And the boys tend to go as 'gangsta' as possible. So flashy designer stuff is huge here. I grew up in the UK and loved having a uniform (maybe i'm weird) but we moved when my son was tiny and to him the thought of a uniform is ridiculous.

I'm British, went to a non uniform primary and then a uniformed grammar school. The grammar school uniform was ridiculous and my parents struggled to afford it, my mum was denied the chance of grammar school as her guardian refused to pay for the uniform.

DD went to a no uniform primary, God it was easy , kids wore mainly leggings and jeans. The only rules were no offensive slogans, no football tops, no midrifs or heels.

Her high school has a high number of disadvantaged children and they try to keep costs down, but we still struggled with cost, PE kits are ridiculous and we had to buy 2 sets of trainers and football boots. They also have to ask permission to remove their blazer. Constant issues over uniform rules. And then we had the ridiculousness of returning after lockdown and having to buy new uniform for the remaining couple of weeks. Kids who didn't have shirts were forced into cheap ill fitting ones bought by the school, it was humiliating and DD was horribly upset about the whole thing. She was also incensed that the money raised by the kids for the school for other things (trips etc) was used to do this.

I never had uniforms when younger but I don't particularly like them in younger children in primary schools or reception. I don't mind them being in secondary schools as it could be hard on families where wealth divide could start showing as it was a godsend back then considering I only had a little amount of clothes but for pre schoolers and primary schools, I think it's ridiculous. I sent ds to nursery and he came back with paint all over his joggers that wouldn't come come off. Imagine that happening to your school uniform every time as there's not much difference between a 3/4 yo in nursery and 4/5yo in reception. With joggers, you could just send them in cheap stuff that they can wear over and over again until it falls apart and no kid would notice this.

I'm not particularly against uniform per se, but I do hate the over-zelous policing of uniform that has kids being punished or even sent home from school because they have the wrong type of black shoe or trouser, etc.

Not keen on them - I've lived here all my life. As a child I went to 4 schools in total. Second primary was quite lax about uniform and I only went there for the final year so only wore the cardigan - my mum didn't want to buy new dresses so I wore my own.

Sixth form was no uniform - loved that.

As a teacher (primary) my first 8 years were in an LA that didn't have uniform. I found it odd and very old fashioned when I moved to an LA where they did have uniform, but am used to it now.

My kids had primary uniform. One went to a secondary that didn't though (in a wealthy liberal type area). Only irritation was she wouldn't wear school type shoes so I had to stop buying properly fitted shoes in favour of trainers. Stupidly they had a school PE kit though, that kept going missing so she still got into trouble for that (it was stolen by bullies).