How do you talk to your children about careers etc? What are the priorities?

[workwoes123]

DS is 14, we are starting to talk to him about career / further study courses.

I didn't really get much advice from my parents - I was clever, studious and didn't need to be pushed to work in school. I went to Uni, got a good degree / MSc / PhD... then stepped out of the academic path to travel, work for local government, be a SAHM. A lot of my earlier decisions were made to please my parents, who valued academic success above all else - but didn't really have any advice to give as far as careers etc went. So I was quite lost after Uni. I always had the impression they rather looked down on anything 'commercial' or manual.

DH OTOH was a mature student. Completely different upbringing to me - he left school at 16, started earning, made redundant in the 80s recession and went back to college then Uni. He's a teacher now and would not recommend it.

Long intro but I'm wondering what aspects of subject choices / further ed / higher ed / careers we should be emphasising? My parents, for example, never once talked about the need to earn a decent amount of money, or what lifestyle I might want to live as an adult, and they subsidised all my (approved) choices. DH had the opposite - he was expected to get out and earn a wage asap, aged 16, and has supported himself since then, whatever he was doing.

So what do you focus on when trying to advise or guide them?

Subjects at school that interest them? Inspire them? Or subjects that they get high marks in (whether they enjoy them or not)?
Skills that they have separate to their academic achievements (DS is super sociable and a real people person, for example)?
The lifestyle and / or earning potential that goes with a certain career path? Avoiding risk?
Fitting in with your expectations? Or family expectations? I know a lot of Drs come from medical families...
Status? How highly-regarded certain careers / jobs / places of study are in society?

So as not to drip feed, we're in France, where over the next year or two DS will have to make a fairly definitive about whether to choose an academic or vocational path to follow.

I will preempt this by saying I'm not at this stage and someone more knowledgeable will come along soon.

My background leans more to your husband side. My parents couldn't talk about careers, I was encouraged to go to uni but given no idea how to get there. I started work at 18 and was a mature student at 30. I still don't really know what I want to do when I grow up.

One thing that concerns me when it comes to this conversation with my child will be the emphasis on choosing a career because of money. Yes - it seems important that someone should have a high paying career but I think this should be tempered with choosing subjects/career path in something your/my child will enjoy. The enjoyment of life and work is far more important than the pay. Career status/pay etc shouldn't be a primary factor in this decision.

Other than that - is your child academic or practical? Are there other non traditional routes into careers that interest him? Does he have the opportunity to do work experience?

I work with schools and part of what I do is talking about related careers. Last week was national careers week in the UK, the website has lots of info about careers and resources such as https://nationalcareersweek.com/download/25400/ could be a starting point for thinking/conversations with you. Lots of info online, videos of people talking about what they do. Hearing from anyone about their career can be helpful, perhaps draw a map of everyone you know and their jobs and if that sparks interest, email them a few questions for your son to read the answers.

I would say, interest is more important than money as a long term motivation. Our role is all about supporting them emotionally so no family expectations apart from they will work. Developing key skills is more important than anything, such as problem solving, critical thinking, resilience.

And note that we don't expect nearly as many people to stay in the same in field throughout their lives as we used to.

Sorry, link fail
https://nationalcareersweek.com/download/25400/

I didn’t talk about careers with my DC, we only ever talked about the next education stage. I encouraged them to pick subjects they enjoyed the most and also a wide range of subjects. Each chose their favourite subject to study at university and now have careers they enjoy. One works in an asset management company and one dies digital marketing for an art gallery.
All the DC I have known who had clear ideas of what they wanted to do around your DC’s age went on to do something different.

Do what subjects they enjoy and are good st and research where they will lead. My parents just said do what makes you happy which is ridiculous as I had no idea. The best advice is do what makes you rich. That gives you choices anyway.

The book what colour is your parachute is interesting. Interests/passions/skills are important and then there are usually different options as ways to make money from this. Choices that enable breadth or later switches may also be helpful. Getting closer to careers through work experience, shadowing, listening to people in those jobs. There is the ‘what’ but also The Who with/where/why etc. same job vastly different in different settings.

Something I wished my parents had done is expose me more to the different jobs that are out there. I didn't know much other than the things they did and the obvious childrens cartoon family type jobs.

Is it something he cares about? There might be good youtube videos/podcast interviewing inspiration people and their careers, usually really interesting to hear the vast range of jobs most 'succesful' people have done.

If he doesn't care then I would encourage him to travel, try everything, persue his interest.

Ask what do they really love? How about talking to people or not? How are they with problem solving? No answers? Then it is time to try different hobbies. Cake decorating or wood working will determine is they are good at problem solving. Volunteering at libraries or hospitals will tell if they like to talk to people. Ceramics will teach them to throw pots and learn if they want to use their hands. Come on Mums and help me here.

Unless there is an obvious profession e.g. medicine, veterinarian that your DC has a passion for, I would try to keep his options open for as long as possible. Studying a particular subject at school doesn't matter in most jobs, its more about having transferable skills. It may be an idea to look at job adverts for brands/companies he can relate to and then see what type of skills and qualifications they are seeking.

For example, what industry is he interested in? Technology, healthcare, manufacturing, food and drink etc etc. Would he like to work for say Google/Microsoft/Disney, or say AstraZeneca/Pfizer or more like Unilever/CocaCola/Nike? Or maybe he doesn't want to be in private sector at all and would want to work in government or public service? Then think about what type of role, a technical role or a support role, and customer facing or not? That might start him thinking more realistically about what skills and qualifications he would need to achieve over the next few years

I am doing a mixture. We talk about education steps and encourage them to study the subjects that inspire them and that they enjoy. But we also research and discuss the careers that various education choices lead to. For example, if you choose to study history at university....what careers are there in the field and are any of them something you’d like to do? Do you want to become a professor, or work in conservation, or do curation in museums? Are the salary expectations enough for your personal goals...ie to raise a family, or travel the world, own a house, retire early, etc. What is the work/life balance of these careers( ie certain careers are more demanding and require weekend, nigh, holiday work, some are high stress whereas others are more relaxed, low stress and predictable.)

If none of the history related careers seem attractive or the expected wages or work/life balance , then perhaps you should look at studying a different subject that leads to a career you would be interested in actually doing.

My kids are 16 and 18 so very relevant subject. With my oldest, he was not academic and obvious that he should go a more vocational route. He is social, outgoing, high energy, good at motivating people, surprisingly patient with kids. He spent the majority of his time when not in school at the gym or sport pitch (played rugby and rowed competitively).
To me it was clear a career in sport/coaching/fitness was suitable, though it took quite some time for him to see this, and now he's a qualified fitness instructor and trainer, he doesn't really see it as a long term thing. I think he could get into leisure management. But, but, I'm not the one doing it and while I have tried to guide him the decision about what he does is his. We have talked frequently about the balance of doing something he wants to (hard to know), is good at (not always what he wants) and getting a decent amount of money doing it.
It's a balance of interest, personality, finance. What is he interested in? Can it be monetised? Does the field suit his personality? My son would be a good teacher according to his character but he's not interested in it. So I though sports coaching would be a good match - but he doesn't seem interested in that either.
You can give them the best advice, but it's their lives, their decision. They need to find their own way - bring motivated enough to figure it out themselves is key to success.
Plus I have discovered my kids don't listen to me, but should a mate or other adult suggest something they go with it 🙄

I have a ds in year 9 so has just chosen his GCSEs. He wants to do three sciences, so I've pointed out what he could do afterwards. He just shrugs but at least he knows there are a variety of options. He has a decent brain and knows I'll back whatever he chooses to do so I'm leaving it there for the moment.

Maybe getting them to think about their values. What sort of job fits with what they think is important? What kind of company fits with their ethics?

What about - specifically - the need to earn a salary that matches the lifestyle they might want to lead? Do you talk about this?

DS mentioned wanting to be a car mechanic, so I got him to research what he could expect to earn as one, then we compared it to what his dad earns (as a senior teacher). He was gobsmacked at the difference, and when I tried to put a mechanics salary into this context - where in our city he could afford to live, what spending power could he have, how we aren’t rich and can only just afford the modest lifestyle we have etc. This is exactly the advice my parents never gave me - at the same time I felt pretty mean. But I’m being realistic, right?

I would say that self-knowledge is the most important part of choosing a career. I went into a career that involves contact with lots of people (nursing) because I liked practical work, wanted to help people and was good at science. It turns out that I am not suited to it at all because I am a real introvert.

So it's really important to try lots of different things (hobbies, subjects at school, holiday jobs) to work out whether you are introverted, a problem-solver, creative, details-focused, perfectionist etc. Find out what kind of pace you like to work at and how you respond to pressure. Work out what your values are. I think then finding a job that suits is easier. All this 'do the subjects you are good at and enjoy' is terrible advice because most jobs are not the same in real life as the theoretical underpinnings you might learn at school/university.

My final advice is not to expect too much from work. Some people find work incredibly fulfilling. Others see it as a means to an end. Either is ok and there are lots of ways to 'work'. I think looking after the house and growing your own food are some of the most important kinds of work we can do.

I think you are right to point out the money stuff. Not as a way of putting him off - he may not care about owning his own house or living in a nice part of town - but as a way of giving him the full context for his choice.

I never discussed salary or future lifestyle with my DC.

Make sure though that you are not pushing him towards a professional career because that is what you know. I imagine there are ways to make reasonable money as a mechanic if that is important to you, but it's not always easy to know from the outside.

My aim is to encourage DS to explore what options there are beyond the obvious ones in his field of interest, and think about routes to get there.

So, currently he thinks he would like to do something involving ICT, computer programming. We’re completely on board with this, and are trying to highlight the range of careers beyond web design/game design/computer technician, so things like cyber security, forensic work etc, as at his age he just doesn’t know about them.

This then leads on to talk about salaries, lifestyle expectations etc.

Both mine and my husband’s parents were similar in that we were supported to complete the further education we wanted to access, but we had to have a plan for the career path we were aiming for, rather than studying purely for the interest in a subject, and we plan to be the same with DS.

workwoes123, but he doesn't have to be a mechanic who is on the lowest rung forever?
He could start out with that, and then go back to college/uni at some stage and study business or mechanics. And maybe set up his own garage or business? It's about finding what you love, and then going with that.
My brother hadn't a clue what he wanted to do. Not academic. Went to college to do a certificate in something business-related, then got on to do the diploma, then eventually did the degree. Ran big pubs, travelled and worked on building sites, came home late twenties and went in to a trade. Runs his own business now. It doesn't all fall in to place straight after school. Lots of kids take a few years to figure out what they want. |As long as working its never wasted time.

I find this all wierd, that people don't talk about it.
I start with being happy, because it's miserable doing a well paid job you hate. Trying to find something you enjoy that pays well / at least reasonably. That starting point covers most of the fundamentals. Then you move onto how to get there. Uni or vocational or apprenticeship. Also recognising that things change in time, so being adaptable that we might not need certain jobs in 30 years time. Plus acceptance that not all aspects of most jobs are enjoyable, but it's it mainly so, that's good enough.

Thisis my view, and it has served me well so far with mine (older than yours)

So what do you focus on when trying to advise or guide them? You do not advise or guide them, you inform them as much as possible so they can make good choices for themselves. There is more than one way to skin a cat and there is more than one right choice in life. My only rule with my kids was it had to be legal.

Subjects at school that interest them? Inspire them? Or subjects that they get high marks in (whether they enjoy them or not)? Subjects they enjoy and can do well enough in to be worth the effort of studying, beyond that I kept out of it. I also offered to pay for subjects they could not do at school if they were desperate to do them.

Skills that they have separate to their academic achievements (DS is super sociable and a real people person, for example)? Discuss this but it is up to them.

The lifestyle and / or earning potential that goes with a certain career path? Avoiding risk? Discuss the range of options and the nature of different lifestyles, the different approaches to risk.

Fitting in with your expectations? Or family expectations? I know a lot of Drs come from medical families... Aboslutely not, I told mine they must do what they wanted not what we wanted.

Status? How highly-regarded certain careers / jobs / places of study are in society? This is a poor way to acheive a happy life so I would tell them to focus on what they want to do and not to worry about status.

"What about - specifically - the need to earn a salary that matches the lifestyle they might want to lead? Do you talk about this?"

Of course. That's the major factor.

I'm sorry OP, but I'm struggling to comprehend why you need to ask. I'm sorry but isn't all of this blatantly obvious. Utter common sense? Do you feel that your upbringing was almost abusive? Did this not occur to you before, re changing how you were treated yourself verses how you want to raise ds?

@workwoes123

What about - specifically - the need to earn a salary that matches the lifestyle they might want to lead? Do you talk about this?

DS mentioned wanting to be a car mechanic, so I got him to research what he could expect to earn as one, then we compared it to what his dad earns (as a senior teacher). He was gobsmacked at the difference, and when I tried to put a mechanics salary into this context - where in our city he could afford to live, what spending power could he have, how we aren’t rich and can only just afford the modest lifestyle we have etc. This is exactly the advice my parents never gave me - at the same time I felt pretty mean. But I’m being realistic, right?

But I’m being realistic, right? Said middle-aged parents everywhere.

You were a SAHM you said - last time I checked, a mechanic will earn more than a SAHM? Why did you compare him to his father but not to yourself?

I told mine that they needed to think for themselves about the relationship between jobs, earnings and lifestyle and that we had made different choices at different times.