Please help my bedtime conundrum!

[DueyCheatemAndHow]

OK wise MNers I need help.

2 kids, one 3.5 (DS) one 18 months (DD). Older one has recently dropped his nap but is now waking up at pre 5am - I realise he is overtired but I can't seem to break the cycle. When he napped he went to bed at 8 but its now bed by 7. How could I get this earlier?

New routine (since he dropped his nap):
5pm - dinner
5.30 - tidy up and quiet TV and milk time.
6.15 - bath together. DS gets out, teeth brushed and into pjs. He then snuggles in my bed and is allowed one episode of something while I get DD out and ready for bed.
6.40 (ish). Story together. Then DD into bed, then DS into bed. DS likes me to lay next to him for a few mins but he's still awake when I leave.

How can I change this for him without changing it for her!?!? Any earlier is too early for her and my brain hurts.

Why is he waking early? Is it too light in his bedroom?

Nope black out curtains and it's still dark anyway! I think he is just overtired.

No screens at least an hour before bed. The blue light from a screen is stimulation and will make it harder for ds to get to sleep. Try giving a book to look at or a quiet toy to play with while he’s waiting, he might get to sleep quicker and be less overtired.

The clocks change this Saturday so that will have an effect. Personally your routine sounds great to me and I'd persevere for a while- possibly making sure there is plenty of outdoor time to tire them both out that way.

Thanks everyone. He is out like a light so I don't think the TV is the problem. We go out at least once a day and he quite literally jumps everywhere - he must be absolutely shattered. I took them for an hours drive before taking him to preschool and he slept them which was something but he won't countenance a nap now unless I'm laying with him and that only works maybe 50% of the time.

what does he do when he wakes in the morning? can he have a gro-clock or similar and learn that morning time is quiet time until the clock lights up?

and stick with the routine - it can take a few weeks to settle into it, but changing too many things just makes it worse.

I agree with the above. Gro clock and quiet time in the morning. Let him stay in his room with some books or a quiet toy until it’s time to get up. He’ll either go back to sleep or he won’t. 10 hours is within the normal range of sleep needs for a 3 year old. I don’t think overtired is nearly as much of a thing as people worry about.

He won't stay in bed he just yells for me. Tried a gro clock, he unplugged it!!!

I've tried bringing him into bed with us but he doesn't settle

He doesn't particularly need a day nap at 3.5, I think your routine sounds great. I also think try a gro clock. My little boy gets a reward token/sticker if he stays in bed until the sunshine comes up.

maybe he doesn't need that much sleep and he needs to go to bed later not all children at that age sleep fpr 11-12 hours if you want him to sleep till 6 or 6.30 mqaybe 7.30-8 would be a better bedtime
if he goes to sleep fine maybe when he wakes he has slept enough
I tended to keep DD up at bit at that age as I didn't want her waking much before 7am

Problem is he is absolutely shattered. He almost fell asleep in his lunch the other day.

I'd go for a gro clock (up high so he can see it but not interfere with it).

Explain how it works and tell him he gets a sticker/prize for everyday he stays in bed until the sun comes up.

Stick with it.

If you really think he's overtired and needs an earlier bedtime then he'll have to go to bed before DD.

Gro clock or equivalent and bribery in the form of stickers and rewards.

Make it achievable but be strict.

I think nap-dropping is a difficult beast. My DS is a bit younger but is dropping his nap (sadly). I'm trying to keep his bedtime the same as usual (7.30ish) which means he gets up at a reasonable time. He's very tired and emotional by the end of the day but I figure this is just a transition time and it won't last forever.