Energy again - sorry - but a bit more complicated for me and I need help

[Graphista]

Partly I need help cos my maths is crap!

Situation is I am currently on prepay with a company that only does prepay and I wouldn't wanna stay with them anyway.

I think I can provide information on kWh energy usage from their data on me

Moving to a smaller place but similar building. I think I've found out who the current provider is.

With the energy price rises etc though I have no idea how to choose which company and which tariff to go with.

At the moment I am thinking to do a meter read when I move in and another a week later using everything as normal to get a baseline?

That will give me my kWh usage per week in winter I think?

Comparison sites are apparently useless at the moment?

And they always were for comparing prepay to credit anyway.

So can knowledgable/clever mners who know/understand this stuff PLEASE help me work out or signpost me to how I check prices to compare and what information I need to hand and what to look for etc I am SO confused at the moment by it all (as I'm sure many are)

I can't even check prices with the current provider to the new address as they only show them to existing customers! Wtf! I don't yet have an account with them will be calling them tomorrow

MSE advice is to stay on deemed tariff until prices can be checked?

I'm sure there must be energy industry people on mn - feel free to name change to help me I totally understand why you may want to do so in the current climate, pm if you'd prefer I won't out you in any way.

Just really need solid help/info on this as I'm on a low income and need to keep prices as low as possible - yea I know who doesn't!

Currently

Zero standing charge, but 1st 2 kWh per day are gas £0.21381 electric £0.3456 then after that gas 3.95 p and electric 20.04p

Supposedly going up the full 54% 1/4/22

Usage annually

Electric 2219 kWh

Gas 2812 kWh

Your current charges I am calculating as follows

Gas 365x2x(21.381-3.95) plus 2812 x 3.95= £127.24 + £111.31 =£238.55

Electric 365x2x(34.56-20.08) plus 2219 x 20.08 = £105.70 + £445.58 = £551.28

Monthly: Elect £45.94 Gas £19.87 Total £65.81.

So if my calculations are correct (I hope you can follow them to check) You would be paying £66 a month on the current pre April rise tarrifs using the usage you have - but £90 a month after April (and I'd guess around £130 after October but that really is a guess at this point!)

Fixing your tarrif now will see you paying higher prices from now till October but you wont then see a rise in October (assuming you fix for a year) that is something only you can weigh up.

Just seen you are in Scotland - I am using English price cap figures so might be different...

Smart meters will involve and Engineer as they physically change the meters.

But no as far as I can see (I haven't done it myself) they do not cost anything. It was in the interestes of the companies to put them in - not sure if that is the case now.

The standard variable (price cap) is what you'll be moved onto if you don't agree to a fix. Don't worry about the 28 days, they can't move you onto a fixed contract without your agreement.
Once you have your account set up, you should then be able to see if your current supplier is offering any fixed contracts. You'll then need to compare the fixed rates offered against the price cap, taking into consideration the increase again in October.
No one really knows or sure what's best as we don't know what your supplier will offer you and we can only guess what the October increase will be. If you go onto a fix now, you'll be paying more than the price cap up to October, bus possibly less after.
Regarding the smart meter, there is no cost to have one installed. It will be a meter exchange.

Where are you getting this 28 day thing from? That is the confusing bit to me.

Every energy supplier is telling you to stay up not - hence the lack of pricing. Is it the Energy company trying to get you to switch because they want you on a (higher) fixed price? I don't see how they can tell you you have to switch - unless you are on some kind of movers tarrif which is cheaper in some way?
The price cap goes up on 1st April - everyone would love to find a cheap fix which is lower than that - however it doesnt exist sadly.

@JackieCollinshasnoauthority thanks for that it is handy to know

I'm beginning to wonder if a thread where those that are already customers post the rates they are able to see as customers and the offers they're getting so people can get SOME idea of the bloody prices!

@LittleOwl153 thanks according to my energy provider I'm £67 elec and a MINUS amount for gas (how does that work?!)

Smart meter isn't urgent just a "nice to have" that can wait until I've started to get my head around which company to go with first! I love not having to deal with meter readers though!

they can't move you onto a fixed contract without your agreement.

Thanks for that that's good to know

Where are you getting this 28 day thing from? That is the confusing bit to me.

I read it on ofgem site but of course I can't flipping find it now! Will link when I can

The price cap goes up on 1st April - everyone would love to find a cheap fix which is lower than that - however it doesnt exist sadly.

Seems utter insanity to me though to not publish prices until then it's gonna be a free for all that day isn't it? Phone lines and websites will crash it will be MURDER! Stupid

In the short term you probably just want to end up on the price cap. Keep an eye on fixed contracts but bear in mind that they're very expensive right now and companies could be trying to take advantage of people worrying about price increases.

Also look at moneysaving expert for suggestions about extra help you might be entitled to due to disability and low income.

Good luck, it's so awful right now and the worst is probably yet to come unfortunately as people aren't yet experiencing the impact of the coming price rises on lots of things.

www.edfenergy.com/for-home/price-change if its edf then this page gives the standard variable rate prices from 1st April. There won't be any cheap fixes on 1st April; everyone's prices will just go up.

Standard variable rate = price capped tariff so the price per kWh can't go above a certain level. No exit fees

Fixed rate = not covered by the price cap so they can charge however much they like. Depending on provider might have an exit fee

The prices for the price cap, or there or thereabouts, are published.

Remember a few weeks ago when the news was all about 'prices will increase by 54%'? That's for the April 22 prices, although there might be tiny differences between suppliers, especially if your usage is much lower or higher than typical or outside the assumed gas/electricity ratio.

But fixes are a separate issue and set by the company based on their view of the world market, which is pretty terrible right now. So sadly, the wholesale prices are continuing to climb as the 54% increase was set before the invasion of Ukraine, which now has a knock on effect to push prices even higher.

So the current fixes people can sign up to are at mostly increasing rates, although there has been the odd short term deal at or around the price cap that generally sells out very quickly and is replaced by something more expensive.

We fixed a couple of weeks ago at just under 15% above the April 22 cap for a year but our supplier has raised prices of its 'special deal for existing customers' at least twice since then, and last time I looked, people were posting offers more like 50% above the cap.

Are you maybe mixing up the idea of 'fixed' price vs 'price cap'? They aren't the same thing.

The variable tariff unit price can go up and down at various points, yes, so you don't have certainty over the prices long term, but they can't just put it up to whatever they want - there is a maximum value (the price cap). Because energy rates are so high right now, most of the companies have already put their per-unit rates up to the price cap (or will, on 1 April). This value is known (per unit. Obviously how much you use each month is not known). They could offer lower rates to be more competitive, but pretty much nobody is right now. So if you are on a standard variable rate, you can pretty much expect to pay the per-unit price cap, and you can budget according to that based on your usage (your usage won't be the same each month, but your direct debit can be estimated so that it basically covers what you use each month). It won't stay the same long term, but it will until at least October, at which point it will rise again (nobody knows how much). But until then, you can be fairly certain you will end up paying the price cap rates - certainly not higher, but unlikely to be lower - on the standard tariff. There shouldn't be any contracts or leaving fees.

Companies can also choose to offer a fixed tariff, which means you get a definite fixed price per unit longer term. But for that certainty, you have the downside that the per-unit price might be more than the price cap. It could be less - it certainly used to be, as the companies wanted you to sign up to their company to get your business, so they'd offer lower fixed rates - but these days, nobody is offering any fixed deals lower than the price cap. So the gamble is whether you want to take a somewhat higher fixed deal price now, which might be good for a year or even two, rather than risk the standard rate rising to a new price cap in October. Otherwise, staying on the price-cap deal is likely as good as you are going to get at the moment. And because there are no leaving fees, you can stay on it while you hope that a better fixed deal comes up soon.

The fixed deals come and go depending on how popular they are etc, and whether they company thinks they'll make more/less money with them. I was all set to stay on the price-cap standard deal until a couple of weeks ago when I got an EOn deal that was essentially the same as the price cap but fixed for a year, so I chose that. However, this deal is no longer available as it was proving very popular! So in some ways it doesn't help for other people to post their deals, because they aren't always available for new customers ,and they don't necessarily stay available for more than a few days.

The prices have already been published for the 1st April price cap. There won't be loads of people calling on that date to find out what their price will be.
With regards to fixed prices, you can see what your current supplier will offer but you will need to wait till your account is opened first. The fixed rates offered by any supplier will be expensive so it will be best to just stick with whoever your supplier id as the standard variable will be the same whoever youre with. Have you already moved in?

@Graphista

The price cap goes up on 1st April - everyone would love to find a cheap fix which is lower than that - however it doesnt exist sadly.

Seems utter insanity to me though to not publish prices until then it's gonna be a free for all that day isn't it? Phone lines and websites will crash it will be MURDER! Stupid

The prices I used above to calculate your costs are at the already published price cap figures for April 2022. So there will be no rush on 1st April. The prices will just increase. Depending on what the oil/gas price does after that will depend on whether there are any cheaper fix deals over the summer months. Currently it looks unlikely but there will be the odd one no doubt.

Your current balance I assume will be transferred or refunded when you move. I haven't had prepay meters so I can't help on that one. I assume particularly as you are changing company when you move you will start afresh.

So my best guess based on what you have said is you will sign up to the standard variable rate for whoever is currently supplying the property and pay around £90 gas and elec from April through to September. There will be a price rise in October. Where again my best guess is you will be paying between £130 and £180 a month - assuming your energy usage does not change - which with a new property makes guessing even harder.

I hope things work out for you OP.

@BarbaraofSeville

In the short term you probably just want to end up on the price cap

Looks like the best option for now

and companies could be trying to take advantage of people worrying about price increases.

I'm a perfect target for this as uncertainty freaks me out - I have ocd and it affects how I feel about my budget management and how I deal with that

I think I'm getting everything I'm eligible for

@dementedpixie thanks for the link I was furiously googling & getting nowhere

Think I'm starting to get my head around things now

Are you maybe mixing up the idea of 'fixed' price vs 'price cap'? They aren't the same thing.

I think I was

So it's probably safer to stay on a standard variable tariff for now?

@Leftleg I haven't been able to find them myself

I haven't moved yet - 2 weeks time but I do have the tenancy so I am liable for the energy bills already if that makes sense?

The prices I used above to calculate your costs are at the already published price cap figures for April 2022.

Oh wow thank you!

Your current balance I assume will be transferred or refunded when you move.

That's what's supposed to happen but this company have been a nightmare to deal with at the best of times! So I'm trying to only top up enough to keep things going

Thanks so much for the rough estimates - when I was checking on the bloody comparison sites using kWh usage they were throwing back at me £300-400 a month! Which there is no way I can afford!

I’m moving soon and the fixed price deals I’ve been offered are £650 a month.
I worked out on the price cap tariff it would be £350 a month
No supplier website I have looked at has had the price cap tariff easily visible they are all pushing expensive fixes
On another thread someone posted the regional price cap figures as it varies very slightly. There have been some really good threads this week and after years of not being able to work out an electric bill I can now!

@tothemoonandbackbuses those numbers are crazy!!!

I did my budget for new place based on @LittleOwl153 max of £180 a month I'd rather be prepared! I'm barely gonna manage!

This is so scary!

Yes I had a sleepless night over the £650 a month. It’s modern electric heating and don’t think we will use it. Wood burners will be much cheaper

as already said, basically it is very easy at the minute simply because it is impossible to get a decent fixed rate deal, so you should just move to the standard vairable tarif (which will be the default tarif) which is governed by the price cap. I think most companies are charging very similar amounts on the variable tarifs, mostly at or close to the price cap.
Fixed rate deal a VV expensive right now. For example I suspect our new monthly cost on our variable tarif will be around £400 a month. Cheapest fixed rate deal I can find is £619 a month!!

Ok more weirdness

I don't wanna post exact amounts as potentially outing but I have now learned that the annual spend for both gas & elec in new flat was less than £600 - for the year! The provider is predicting less than £900 annually based on April price rise

I am thinking it's been lying empty for a while? Therefore not lived in and skewed prices?

So confused. 318.88

Most expensive kWh prices direct debit

South Scotland

49.65p elec
27.22p gas

Current annual kWh usage

Elec 2232
Gas 2669

Which I think if I calculate that

Elec 2232 x 49.65p = £1108.19
Gas 2669 x 27.22p = £726.50

Which is approx pcm

Elec £92.35
Gas £60.54

Total of £152.89 pcm

Is that right?

Remember your standing charge amounts for each as well.

I think you have confused the standing charge and the KWH

I can do a calculation for you in a second

For where I live

Gas - 7p per KWH, 27p per day standing charge
Elect - 28p per KWH, 45p per day SC

Gas total = 2669 0.07 + 0.28 365 = £289.03
Elec = 2232 0.28 + 365 0.45 = £789.21

Oh crikey I didn't see a note/info about standing charge will that be on their website?

@Graphista

Oh crikey I didn't see a note/info about standing charge will that be on their website?

I think you have quoted the standing charges by mistake as your gas price was 4x higher than the price cap

And again can't check tariffs or standing charge prices until I have an account which as a new customer I apparently can't do online I have to speak to someone when lines open tomorrow

Is it likely to be only standing charges if place has been empty a long time ?

@Graphista

And again can't check tariffs or standing charge prices until I have an account which as a new customer I apparently can't do online I have to speak to someone when lines open tomorrow

Is it likely to be only standing charges if place has been empty a long time ?

What is the company?