If you're a crap sleeper, can I ask you a question?

[GeorgieTheGorgeousGoat]

I've suffered with insomnia off and on for the last 20 years (I'm 40) and I've recently had a weird realisation.

I find it really easy to fall asleep, literally 5/6 minutes some nights at my 10pm bedtime. But I usually wake somewhere between 1-4am for up to 3 hours and then around 5am I find it easier to fall asleep again.

I always thought this was because I was tired again but the last couple of weeks I've had a different feeling. Almost like the depths of the night are the middle of a swimming pool and the beginning and ends are the edge of the pool. I'm a crap sleeper/ swimmer so find it easier to sleep /swim at the edges.

Does that sound totally bonkers or can anyone else relate? I suspect my lack of sleep might be sending me crazy

This tends to happen to me if I've had alcohol. I fall asleep quickly but then am awake for middle section of night.

I also suspect your lack of sleep might be sending you crazy!

I'm pretty much tee total! It's a stress thing, I have GAD which doesn't help but the sleep thing predates that anyway.

@WeAreNotBowlingWithApples

I also suspect your lack of sleep might be sending you crazy!

you're not wrong!

Someone told me recently that know olden times (really olden times) everyone did this and it was called 1st sleep and 2nd sleep. Ppl used to read or write letters in between!

I drop off easily but wake between 3 and 5 then I can't get back off. When I wake it's like I'm wide awake like I've had 8 hours.

I also do this and think I would fare better with the first and second sleep regime-it’s relatively recently we have moved to the all night sleep.

I fall asleep straight away around 10pm
I wake around 1am and am wide awake for 2 or 3 hours
I fall asleep again around 4/5 am.
My alarm goes off at 6am and I feel utterly ill getting out of bed.
It’s awful.

I've always had episodes of insomnia often in the week my period is due. Now, in the perimenopause, it's much more frequent. I hate it. I often fall asleep for a few minutes initially (or not at all) and then am awake until 2-3am. I tend to swig liquid antihistamine at bedtime if it is really bad. I tried zopiclone but that took too long to kick in and then I could not function the following day.

There's som evidence that humans used to have a bi phasic sleep pattern (two blocks of sleep with a break in the middle) so maybe you're more suited to that!

I get anxiety which is worse at night . I also grind my teeth and end up with long blood blisters on my inner cheeks . Covid and now Ukraine has sent my anxiety sky high. I sometimes take an antihistamine ( Piriton ) for a week or so an hour before my usual bedtime and it zonks me out most of the night.

Yup I'm the same - it's a bit better since cutting back on booze and going onto HRT. It's also related to anxiety apparently. Difficulty in falling asleep is a symptom of depression but early hours wakening is anxiety led. Certainly with me it is strongly related to worrying about work.

@Susu49

Someone told me recently that know olden times (really olden times) everyone did this and it was called 1st sleep and 2nd sleep. Ppl used to read or write letters in between!

I was going to say this! It changed with the industrial revolution I think And the invention of light bulbs and 8hr working days.

I was going to say this too - it’s the way we’re supposed to sleep! But it’s not great if you have to get up early for work.

@NinaDefoe

I fall asleep straight away around 10pm I wake around 1am and am wide awake for 2 or 3 hours I fall asleep again around 4/5 am. My alarm goes off at 6am and I feel utterly ill getting out of bed. It’s awful.

I could have written this. Exactly the same hours for me also.

Or I’m ridiculously tired and can’t drop off till 3am and have to get up at 6.

Awful awful awful.

I used to do this every night, now it's very rare

There are a number of things I do differently now that are meant to aid sleep and I don't know which help most

I take 400mg of magnesium every night
I take ashwanga in the evening
and
When I go to bed I listen to a fairly boring story, read by someone with a nice voice on Alexia. I set it to switch off in 15 minutes and if/when I wake up in the night, I continue with the story. I normally fall asleep very quickly the first time but can listen for a while before I go back off again in the night - occasionally she stops when I am still awake and I have to get a second 15 minutes but it is rare.

Yeah I totally get this. I usually manage to fall asleep for half an hour pre 11pm and am then awake every 15 mins throughout the night. I find it much easier after 5am and in the daytime (I'm aware daytime sleeping is bad for sleep hygiene but have a lot of fatiguing illnesses so no choice) it's so frustrating.

I am right there with you.

Usually fall asleep fairly easily (usually, not always) but can wake up anywhere from 30 mins to 3 hours later. Then I'm awake for a good 2-3 hours afterwards.

If I'm still awake, at say 5am, I just get up. I know falling asleep after that time to only sleep for another hour will make me feel worse than just staying awake and powering through the day.

I had annual leave recently and with no work and no school run eventually I slipped into a pattern of falling asleep around 9.30pm, waking again around 12.30am, staying up then till 5am and then sleeping again till 10am or 11am. After 9 hours of sleep i started to feel relatively human.

Back to work now, so back to less than 4 hours and its killer. I almost feel like it would be better to have it all at the end of the night rather than the beginning, but cant seem to make it there.