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Original poster

If ExH takes DD out of school, will I get a fine?

69 replies

FinedNotFine · 27/02/2022 20:00

DD is 7 year 3. She has several medical issues so misses half days fairly regularly. Her attendance is usually around 86-89% mark, only once have I got it above 90%.

I regularly get letters threatening me with fines if I “don’t take DDs education seriously and send her in” school always assure me that they have sent off all the evidence of appointments to Education Welfare and I shouldn’t get fined as it’s unavoidable – they’ve told me a few times they mark it down as an M but if she’s in before the end of the morning it goes down as U with a note saying it’s M and then evidence letters sent off alongside it. She’s occasionally been down as M for the morning but U for the afternoon as we’ve got to school right after the registers close in the afternoon.

So to the issue

ExH has decided he absolutely must take DD out of school for a week immediately after May Half Term. For his sister’s wedding.

I do not agree with it. He could easily fit the event into half term, fly out late evening after school on the Friday and back late Saturday, the event is a wedding for his sister on the Wednesday, he just wants to do it cheaply.

He says he’s taking her out of school for the 5 days/10 sessions and it’s not him who’ll be fined because he’s the NRP. There’s a CAO which gives me full residency. He says if I try and pass the fine onto him he’ll just ignore it and because DD is registered as living at my address everywhere and nowhere has a record of his address it’s me who’ll get fined.

I have told him I am not asking the HT if DD can be removed from school, and I will make it clear I do not give permission but he just shrugged and said I best make sure I have the money for the fine anyway.

I can’t afford a fine, and don’t agree for her to be removed from school for the week. I have no worries about her being bought back, all his family are here, they’re just wanting to show off abroad, but it’s his weekend right before the week, so that makes things awkward as I can’t not send her as I’d be in breech.

My solicitor doesn’t really know what to do other than making it clear I don’t give permission, I don’t have and never have had her passport, ExH has sorted all that.

So will I get fined? And would it be classed as a breech to keep her that weekend so he doesn’t take her out of school?

For added context she’s around 2 years behind, working at around Year 1 level, is just starting to read, struggles with writing, also has processing and memory issues, as well as her medical issues. I am keen for her to be in school as much as possible given she misses a lot already.

OP posts:
Ginger1982 · 27/02/2022 21:12

He doesn't need your permission to take her out of the country for up to 28 days as per the order. You said it's his weekend right before, but presumably he would be needing to return her at the end of the weekend so technically he would be in breach if he didn't bring her back.

mumjustmum · 27/02/2022 21:17

My children aren't of school age yet, so please excuse my naietivety, but couldn't you just send all evidence to school and ask them not to release DD to him? If he's not picking her up for the trip, can you just go out until you know he will have left?
Again, sorry, I've no experience yet of schools or sharing care with a NRP.

HPandTheNeverEndingBedtime · 27/02/2022 21:27

The school don't control who gets fined just pass the information on. The letters are likely to be printed automatically triggered by the attendance %.

If you did get fined then you can go to appeal, taking all of the medical notes with you and a printout of screenshot of the conversation with your ex.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about these subjects:

2 year olds 7 year olds Families General education
Lou98 · 27/02/2022 21:36

If there's a CAO in place - who would be due to have her the week he's taking her? I know you've said that it's his weekend the weekend before but when would he be due to bring her back per the order? If she is supposed to be back with you on the Monday and he doesn't bring her back then he would be in breach of the CAO - I'm surprised your solicitor has said there's nothing you can do, I would be getting a second opinion

Original poster
FinedNotFine · 27/02/2022 21:42

@Lou98

If there's a CAO in place - who would be due to have her the week he's taking her? I know you've said that it's his weekend the weekend before but when would he be due to bring her back per the order? If she is supposed to be back with you on the Monday and he doesn't bring her back then he would be in breach of the CAO - I'm surprised your solicitor has said there's nothing you can do, I would be getting a second opinion
@Lou98 He only has her EOWend until Sunday night, so she's with me in week.
OP posts:
Kitkat151 · 27/02/2022 21:47

@Hoardasurass

If you contact the passport Office and tell them that you have full residency and your ex applied for a passport without your permission and he intends to remove your child from the country without your permission they will cancel the passport and arrest him at the airport for abduction
🙄 no they won’t.... he’s got PR ....he can take his child abroad
Lou98 · 27/02/2022 21:52

@FinedNotFine I would definitely be speaking to another solicitor then as he would be in breach of a court order.

Try get any conversations with him in writing making it clear you don't give permission, you can appeal the fine if you get one so better to have the evidence

weegiemum · 27/02/2022 23:39

Cancel her passport then he'll be stopped at 5he airport. A friend of mine did this, and didn't tell the father, so he was a bit surprised at check in when his ds didn't have a valid passport. In this case the father was trying to take the ds to his home country for a month without permission. Friend got her ds back from security at the airport as dad kicked off big time and police had to be involved.

FaceLikeASlappedAss · 27/02/2022 23:54

Dh has parental responsibility for his dc. He got a cao for contact
It states dc resides with their dm.
It states she can take them out of the country for 28 days without his consent.
But it states if he wants to then he has to get her permission because there's a cao in place and she has to handover passport 14 days prior to a holiday Check the cao. It may be different in your case

Flatandhappy · 28/02/2022 05:58

Did you sign the passport application form? If not I would wonder how he got one without lying. Maybe check this with your solicitor?

Original poster
FinedNotFine · 28/02/2022 08:03

@Flatandhappy

Did you sign the passport application form? If not I would wonder how he got one without lying. Maybe check this with your solicitor?
@Flatandhappy No I didn't, I asked if I needed to and he said no it's all sorted
OP posts:
ThisIsGroundControl · 28/02/2022 08:10

Ffs people he is her father with PR.

Write to the school saying you don't give permission but acknowledge that he has pr so you can't stop him. When the fine comes you can appeal, you can prove you didn't give permission (via letter from school) and they need to fine your ex. Things like this happen all the time.

axolotlfloof · 28/02/2022 08:58

You can not allow him to take DD on the Weds they are due to fly?
I would put it in writing (email?) to him now that you do not give permission.

Youcansaythatagainandagain · 28/02/2022 09:12

Flatandhappy
Did you sign the passport application form? If not I would wonder how he got one without lying. Maybe check this with your solicitor?
@Flatandhappy No I didn't, I asked if I needed to and he said no it's all sorted

I’d investigate this asap.

ThisIsGroundControl · 28/02/2022 09:16

@Youcansaythatagainandagain

Flatandhappy Did you sign the passport application form? If not I would wonder how he got one without lying. Maybe check this with your solicitor? *@Flatandhappy* No I didn't, I asked if I needed to and he said no it's all sorted

I’d investigate this asap.

Had a quick Google and it seems you don't have to sign, someone with parental responsibility can apply and they have to give both parents details (if both have PR) but don't have to sign
FelicityPike · 28/02/2022 09:28

@axolotlfloof

You can not allow him to take DD on the Weds they are due to fly? I would put it in writing (email?) to him now that you do not give permission.
This, just don’t hand her over. It’s not his contact time, you don’t give permission. Although, how upset would your daughter be?
britnay · 28/02/2022 10:36

I'm presuming that his intention is just to fly out during his contact weekend? Therefore OP wouldn't have any power to stop him by the sounds of it.

Original poster
FinedNotFine · 28/02/2022 12:01

@britnay

I'm presuming that his intention is just to fly out during his contact weekend? Therefore OP wouldn't have any power to stop him by the sounds of it.
@britnay This is correct, he wants to fly out on his contact weekend then come back a week later.

My OP wasn't clear, sorry the wedding is the Wednesday after half term, they could in theory fly out Tuesday night and come back Thursday morning so she'd only miss 3 days but I still think it'll trigger a fine due to her attendance being so low anyway.

Have put in writing to the Headteacher what is happening and put in big bold red letters, that I do not agree for her to be removed from school. And asking what would happen in the event of fines as all her registered addresses are mine.

OP posts:
MyDcAreMarvel · 28/02/2022 12:07

People are misunderstanding the court order . It’s the op who doesn’t need permission from her ex not the other way round.

RandomMess · 28/02/2022 12:20

I would just get a prohibitive steps order to prevent her removing her from school for holidays including but not limited to this one.

I too thought that wording on the court order meant that you don't need his permission has she resides with you primarily whereas he does as she doesn't reside with him.

ChocolateMassacre · 28/02/2022 12:58

Are you most concerned about the fine or about DD missing school?

If it's the fine (which given she's 7, it would be for me), make him pay you the amount of the fine in advance.

You say the CAO doesn't require you to make your DD available for contact. So you're not breaching a court order by not having her available. Be clear with him that unless you receive money to cover the fine from him in advance, you will take DD out for the day when he is meant to be collecting her and she will miss the flight.

Original poster
FinedNotFine · 28/02/2022 13:01

@ChocolateMassacre

Are you most concerned about the fine or about DD missing school?

If it's the fine (which given she's 7, it would be for me), make him pay you the amount of the fine in advance.

You say the CAO doesn't require you to make your DD available for contact. So you're not breaching a court order by not having her available. Be clear with him that unless you receive money to cover the fine from him in advance, you will take DD out for the day when he is meant to be collecting her and she will miss the flight.

@ChocolateMassacre Both really, I can't afford the fine but I also don't want her missing school as she's behind as it is.

CAO I have to make her available for contact EOWend, and he's planning to fly out on his weekend with her.

OP posts:
RandomMess · 28/02/2022 13:09

If you have all his holiday information in writing from him then you could reasonably refuse contact that weekend as you have already told him you do not consent to the holiday as it's in term time. You can even tell him in writing that you are happy for him to have those nights at another time.

If he calls the police then sure they will do a welfare check. Unless your court order happens to have a "penal notice" (or whatever it's called) attached to it.

You need to seek proper legal advice about what your options are. If he does need your permission then presumably you can alert the passport office and airport that he does not have permission to fly. A prohibitive steps order is probably the best course of action although unless you are exempt from court fees that may be more than the fine.

In part it depends if you think this will be a one off occurrence due to the wedding or he will carry on taking her out of school for holidays.

tanstaafl · 28/02/2022 13:10

Does DD want to go?
Or is this more about punishing you?

Original poster
FinedNotFine · 28/02/2022 13:29

@RandomMess

If you have all his holiday information in writing from him then you could reasonably refuse contact that weekend as you have already told him you do not consent to the holiday as it's in term time. You can even tell him in writing that you are happy for him to have those nights at another time.

If he calls the police then sure they will do a welfare check. Unless your court order happens to have a "penal notice" (or whatever it's called) attached to it.

You need to seek proper legal advice about what your options are. If he does need your permission then presumably you can alert the passport office and airport that he does not have permission to fly. A prohibitive steps order is probably the best course of action although unless you are exempt from court fees that may be more than the fine.

In part it depends if you think this will be a one off occurrence due to the wedding or he will carry on taking her out of school for holidays.

@RandomMess Thank you no penal notice on the order so at most if I keep her and he takes me back to court one might get added.

He's never been abroad before, its only because his sister is getting married abroad he's going. He barely even takes her away in this country so I can't see him trying to go again.

If it had been during half term I'd have had no worries about sending her, it's just missing more school unnecessarily which is getting me as well as the complete lack of care about the fine.

OP posts:
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