To not get this - Ant & Dec

[Ilostit]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-60464528

The bottom line is dressing up like this abs wearing this amount of make up isn’t what it is to be a woman.

This is one total utter bullshit article from the bbc.

Ever since my child has seen this he has worn a full face of makeup, wig, heels and corset!
WONT SOMEBODY THINK OF THE CHILDREN!

The worst example of a man dressing as a woman is Brendan O'Carroll. Mainly the foul language and lack of humour though.

@Airyfairymarybeary

Ever since my child has seen this he has worn a full face of makeup, wig, heels and corset! WONT SOMEBODY THINK OF THE CHILDREN!

That's nothing we watched Harry Potter recently and my ds thinks he's a ..... wizard 😳 looking for a support service to get us through this difficult time.

@Georgeskitchen

They shouldn't be targeting children with this. Actual professional drag artists are just that , they don't pretend to be women and everyone knows they are not. Anyone who has been to a drag club will know that they are very polished performers, and very risqué. And not for children I'm disturbed by this obsession with sexual orientation and gender identity being pushed on young impressionable kids

It's been happening for years through music, computer games , tv and most of all online. I'd sooner my child watch a performance that was made age appropriate than watch teen age girls dancing in next to nothing singing about sex or listen to male artists on mainstream day time radio sing about shagging women.

[quote Velvian]@autienotnaughtytie, do you think drag is inclusive of women and girls? Or is inclusivity of men and boys the only thing that matters?

The rise of MRAs, the eroding of women's, sex based protections, promotion drag in primary schools is all on the same spectrum.

The message is that women have got too big for their boots.[/quote]
I don't know that there's any rule that women can't do drag? I don't see drag queens taking womens power. But if I was a man wanting power I'd want to see women fighting against drag queens, transgender people etc. When the weaker groups fight with each other they become weaker when they stand together they become stronger. 😉

@girlmom21 because there are children, adolescents and adults who don't feel comfortable as they are and this can cause mh issues, lead to suicide. Showing these people it's ok to not follow the norm, it's ok to be different might help some people make changes that will vastly improve their quality of life. What it won't do is make someone who is comfortable in their gender decide they need to change. (Ie it isn't catching)

[quote autienotnaughty]@girlmom21 because there are children, adolescents and adults who don't feel comfortable as they are and this can cause mh issues, lead to suicide. Showing these people it's ok to not follow the norm, it's ok to be different might help some people make changes that will vastly improve their quality of life. What it won't do is make someone who is comfortable in their gender decide they need to change. (Ie it isn't catching) [/quote]
The people you're talking about don't need men who dress up as women to mock them. They're not representative of people who are unsure of their identity.

Unfortunately, it very much is 'catching' @autienotnaughtytie. Just look at the Tavistock Clinic. There is a movement to make children think that if they reject gender norms, there is something wrong with their body. What can follow is state sanctioned mutilation of children and permanent changes from what in many cases is a misdiagnosis.

If you have DCs that conform to the gender norms that match their sex, you are very lucky and have no skin in this game.

@tillytoodles1

Does anyone remember Lily Savage? Paul O'Grady did everything in drag for years and no-one complained.

Lily Savage wasn't known as anyone else but Lily Savage though. Certainly not a pair of entertainers who are well known to kids.

@Velvian

Unfortunately, it very much is 'catching' *@autienotnaughtytie*. Just look at the Tavistock Clinic. There is a movement to make children think that if they reject gender norms, there is something wrong with their body. What can follow is state sanctioned mutilation of children and permanent changes from what in many cases is a misdiagnosis.

If you have DCs that conform to the gender norms that match their sex, you are very lucky and have no skin in this game.

My adult children do, my youngest who knows? I'm not worried if he wants to identify as a girl, boy dog or sonic the hedgehog it's a normal part of childhood I'll just liove him. If when he's older he has any questions etc feels different then I'll support him. I certainly wouldn't be think fuck if only he hadn't watched ant n Dec in drag!! It's ok forty years ago people thought gay was catching in another forty years you might catch up.

@autienotnaughty thats the problem whereas before identifying as a dog, girl, boy or hedgehog was seen as part of childhood now it is seen as you are trans and need to start on a lifelong path of irreversible medication and potentially surgery.
A girl who wants to climb trees, play football and have short hair is not really a girl according to people like Stonewall and Mermaids they are instead a boy and always have been, the same for if it is a boy who likes pink and ballet.
No understanding is give to any other factors such as homophobic relatives or internalised homophobia or girls whove faced abuse and want not to feel female or even just the normal discomfort of puberty only 100% unquestioning affirmation is allowed or you are being transphobic.

@lockdownhasbrokenme I absolutely don't agree with that. Let kids be kids and as they grow older if they want to transition then they do and if they don't they don't. But a lot of the posts on here are about the gender debate and people not wanting their children exposed to transgender or drag because they don't agree with it or don't recognise gender change. That's also worrying because no one should feel like they are wrong in society or under represented. But I do agree labelling and jumping to conclusions that a girl who's wants to be a boy needs to make life changing descions at a young age is also dangerous.

a.conferring sexuality and sexual orientation to children

Is there something wrong with that? A lot of gay adults talk about how even in primary school they were aware they didn't think about the opposite-sex the same way as their peers, didn't have crushes on opposite-sex celebs like their peers, or had crushes on their same-sex peers.

When I was in Year 6 one of the pirates of the Caribbean films came out and lots of kids had seen it. The boys were talking about how "hot" Keira Knightly was and lots of girls were crushing on Orlando Bloom. Same with High School Musical and Zac Efron and Vanessa Hudgens etc.

I'm not sure why people think that children don't think about these things.

I hate drag.

"Is there something wrong with that? A lot of gay adults talk about how even in primary school they were aware they didn't think about the opposite-sex the same way as their peers, didn't have crushes on opposite-sex celebs like their peers, or had crushes on their same-sex peers."

Absolutely true, and for this reason schools should be wary of presenting heteronormativity as the baseline context of course. However, those now gay adults are not saying that labelling those feelings would have been helpful. They just recognise that their sexuality was inherent from very young. That is still not in anyway an argument to refer to children as "gay" "queer" or even "straight". There is absolutely no reason at all to expect young children to have considered or defined their sexuality. There is no need, no benefit to them. The BBC referring to "queer children" is the normalisation of a term I don't think there is any acceptable reason for using.

I feel like most people are on the same page we just want our kids to be kids. The problem is the professionals/charities that push for labels and some parents think they need to shield their children.

That is still not in anyway an argument to refer to children as "gay" "queer" or even "straight". There is absolutely no reason at all to expect young children to have considered or defined their sexuality.

Ah, I get the issue with labelling it that way, for any orientation. I suppose phrasing anything like that more along the lines of (and I'm not saying drag in particular, but things like representation with gay parents in books etc or gay film characters for kids)... "Could be beneficial for kids who are trying to understand their feelings around relationships and desires" or something to that sort, rather than labelling sexualities.

How is drag offensive to women? I’m a woman and don’t find it offensive.

I'm struggling to see why two straight men in drag is supposed to be relevant to LGBT kids.