Autism and schooling

[poppupppirate]

Just wondering if anyone could have a read of how my child is doing right now and what they would do regarding schooling or give me any advice. They are 4 and a half and have a diagnosis of autism and ehcp.

12 months ago - non verbal, constant meltdowns, wasn't engaging in learning at mainstream school nursery. Couldn't tolerate being in the vicinity of other children and became distressed very easily if other children tried to join in. We were asked to carefully consider school options and have a look at special schools for comparison though they were happy to keep them in school.

Now - in reception at the same mainstream.

Speaking in sentences and has good understanding, is able to hold a two way conversation
Still needs speech therapy and has a way to go, but has come on an incredible amount.

Knows all phonics sounds and can blend sounds to read simple words (dog, cat, dad etc) also recognises 'special friend' sounds (th, sh etc)

Can count to past 20 and is able to add up with numbers upto 10.

They have made friends and can play happily with and alongside other children, but sometimes needs support if they don't get their own way or need to understand sharing.

They have built good relationships with staff and trust them.

They needs a lot of additional support especially with personal care, sensory needs mean they still want to use a nappy although they are not incontinent and have full bladder and bowel control.

My main concern is how much things will change in year one moving from eyfs and less play based learning, sitting at a desk etc.

My gut is telling me to continue into year one and see how they go, moving school could be traumatic and confusing and I feel they are making enough learning progress to give it a shot.

@Halloweenrainbow

To answer your OP, one of the issues raised about DDs moving up was her lack of stamina and concern she might not get through the whole school day with there being less play and less down time than in a nursery setting. Is stamina an issue for your DC?

He is able to get through the school day at the moment but there are plenty of opportunities for rest and not too much mental pressure. I honestly don't know how he will cope in year one as he could thrive on the routine and structure or completely fall apart because it's too much in comparison. I am very stressed and worked up already but right now there doesn't seem to be much reason to uproot him either.

@LER83

He sounds very similar to my ds, who is 6 and in yr 1 now. Nursery/reception was very up and down, the start of year 1 was horrendous! We managed to get his ehcp through in October as it had previously been rejected (think having the educational physcologist witness him throwing a chair at the door to try and escape is what swayed it 😳!) He then got an amazing 1 to 1 who works with him until lunchtime everyday and he is a changed boy! He engages with all lessons whereas before he would go off to read a book if he didn't want to join in. He speech has really come on, he's made some lovely friends and he really enjoys going to school. He's still not toilet trained and struggles with things like pe/dressing himself etc, but we are working on that. It doesn't sound like there is any reason why mainstream wouldn't work for your ds, but I would maybe bring up about a 1 to 1, I'm surprised they weren't more specific in the ehcp.

Wow sounds like you've had a lot to deal with

I am going to push for a 1-1 on the basis that I envisage the wheels completely falling off without adequate support, rather than watching and waiting and just hoping they don't fall off.

I don't know how requesting a 1-1 works really but previous conversations with the SENCO and what other parents have said make me feel a bit unhopeful

@poppupppirate to get 1-1written into section F of an EHCP you’ll generally need evidence from an Ed psych, you’ll possibly also need to appeal. Stressful but ultimately worth it!

[quote Sockpile]@poppupppirate to get 1-1written into section F of an EHCP you’ll generally need evidence from an Ed psych, you’ll possibly also need to appeal. Stressful but ultimately worth it![/quote]
Thank you I will get onto it when they are back in school and work out what to do

@poppupppirate you may have a very good SENCO but not all of them are aware of what the law states versus local LA policies (which may not be legal). I really recommend looking for local EHCP Facebook groups or getting advice from IPSEA and SOS!SEN.

[quote Sockpile]@poppupppirate you may have a very good SENCO but not all of them are aware of what the law states versus local LA policies (which may not be legal). I really recommend looking for local EHCP Facebook groups or getting advice from IPSEA and SOS!SEN.[/quote]
Thank you

Senco isn't the best, I will look those up thank you

Unfortunately schools can and will discriminate. You are doing the exact thing you should be doing and exploring options if mainstream doesn't turn out to be the right place. It entirely depends on your child and school where this will go. As I said previously the school my child attended were terrible at meeting needs and went out of their way to show they were once they realised they would have to budget too for the EHCP. this is after years of saying they could meet her needs. If your child's behaviour starts to deteriorate then this is a red flag no matter what school says. If this happens then prepare to be painted with neurotic mother , bad father, single parent syndrome 😥 the list goes on. Hopefully your school choice would be better but always be aware and never ever doing yourself!

doubt yourself

@Lovingthemalbec

Unfortunately schools can and will discriminate. You are doing the exact thing you should be doing and exploring options if mainstream doesn't turn out to be the right place. It entirely depends on your child and school where this will go. As I said previously the school my child attended were terrible at meeting needs and went out of their way to show they were once they realised they would have to budget too for the EHCP. this is after years of saying they could meet her needs. If your child's behaviour starts to deteriorate then this is a red flag no matter what school says. If this happens then prepare to be painted with neurotic mother , bad father, single parent syndrome 😥 the list goes on. Hopefully your school choice would be better but always be aware and never ever doing yourself!

Thank you

Between 5 to 9 in 10 autistic kids will be bullied in mainstream, and half will be excluded. IMO, no amount of 'language modelling' can compensate for this level of abuse and exclusion.

'Inclusion' is failing autistic kids and will do so for as long as parents continue to falsly believe that they benefit more from being with their neurotypical peers than their autistic ones.

@Thenose

Between 5 to 9 in 10 autistic kids will be bullied in mainstream, and half will be excluded. IMO, no amount of 'language modelling' can compensate for this level of abuse and exclusion.

'Inclusion' is failing autistic kids and will do so for as long as parents continue to falsly believe that they benefit more from being with their neurotypical peers than their autistic ones.

Thanks for that

Perhaps you should step away from a supportive and positive thread if you have nothing helpful to add.

"Perhaps you should step away from a supportive and positive thread if you have nothing helpful to add."

The irony! Perhaps you should not attempt to exclude an autistic person for giving you a characteristically autistic answer: one that takes the question literally and answers it directly and honestly. You asked for advice about what to do with your son. I gave you statistics about the detriment inherent in mainstream schooling for autistic children, based on the best and most recent research. You don't find this helpful. Why not?

Because I don't believe that all autistic children should be sent to a special school simply because they are autistic.

They have options available to them.

If they are progressing in, can cope with and are happy in a mainstream setting then why move them? They will be more equip to cope with society when they are older if they have been educated with a mixture of children.

Children with higher levels of need will of course require the support a special school can offer to enable them to thrive, but some children will thrive being in a mainstream setting with a mixture of neurotypical children with the right support.

There are parents on this thread trying to do the best thing for their child and it is unhelpful to be told that they will be statistically be bullied, abused and excluded in mainstream settings. Plenty of parents on this thread alone have had children with really positive experiences.

I asked for specific advice about my child based on how he is presenting at the moment and thoughts on how he has progressed to help me to make a decision on his future schooling.

@Thenose ^

"I asked for specific advice about my child based on how he is presenting at the moment and thoughts on how he has progressed to help me to make a decision on his future schooling."

And I answered: if you leave him in mainstream he is likely to be bullied by his peers and excluded by his teachers.

" There are parents on this thread trying to do the best thing for their child and it is unhelpful to be told that they will be statistically be bullied, abused and excluded in mainstream settings."

Speak for yourself; many parents find it helpful to be informed of significant risks to their children. I certainly do.

" Plenty of parents on this thread alone have had children with really positive experiences."

The empirical data shows that most autistic children say their experiences in mainstream are poor. Autistic adults overwhelmingly say their experiences of mainstream were poor. It seems to me that the only people saying that autistic kids should stay in mainstream are idealists, politicians and some parents. The idealists are willing to sacrifice autistic children at the alter of an imagined future utopia of inclusion. The politicians are staving off the headache that will ensue once the failure of the 'inclusion' project is more widely recognised. The parents say things like "They will be more equip to cope with society when they are older if they have been educated with a mixture of children.", inferring they think that a mixture of neurotypical children is superior to a mixture of autistic ones. It's a shame.

@Thenose

And I answered: if you leave him in mainstream he is likely to be bullied by his peers and excluded by his teachers.

The teachers at my child's school are incredible, patient and understanding. I have older children there too and have have seen first hand how children with SEN are treated. So while you might have had negative experiences at your school(s) that doesn't mean every single mainstream school is like that.

Speak for yourself; many parents find it helpful to be informed of significant risks to their children. I certainly do.

I didn't ask for to be informed that my child will likely be abused, bullied and excluded. People are able to start their own thread if they want statistics on how autistic people have felt in school. That's not what I asked for.

The empirical data shows that most autistic children say their experiences in mainstream are poor. Autistic adults overwhelmingly say their experiences of mainstream were poor. It seems to me that the only people saying that autistic kids should stay in mainstream are idealists, politicians and some parents. The idealists are willing to sacrifice autistic children at the alter of an imagined future utopia of inclusion. The politicians are staving off the headache that will ensue once the failure of the 'inclusion' project is more widely recognised. The parents say things like "They will be more equip to cope with society when they are older if they have been educated with a mixture of children.", inferring they think that a mixture of neurotypical children is superior to a mixture of autistic ones. It's a shame.

Wow.

I did not say (or think) that neurotypical children are superior. I said a mixture of children. Mainstream schools educate children with various SEN too. Hence the word mixture. Mixture of SEN and neurotypical children.

You might also consider that autistic adults of today more than likely went to mainstream schools at a time when teachers didn't know how to teach a child with SEN. There were no interventions, no training, no adjustments made, or it was very rare. Children were labelled as difficult, naughty etc and treated as such. They weren't helped. That is not the norm in mainstream schools now.

What I have witnessed from being in a school environment with my older children are kind and compassionate teachers.
Children with SEN are always included but given space and time away when they are overwhelmed. My son often has other children looking out for him as they know he finds things tricky sometimes. So at 4 years old there is already evidence of awareness and understanding. This isn't the case everywhere, but neither is your experience.

I don't believe the right way to educate autistic children is to segregate them together away from everyone else regardless of their individual abilities. I believe in mainstream inclusion where the child is happy and able to thrive, aswell as specialist education when the child needs those extra layers of support.

The supportive nature of Ds mainstream primary has massively helped shape him into the person he is today. As I said earlier it’s not mainstream v specialist but finding the school that can best meet the needs of the individual child. As great as they are I know the local specialist schools couldn’t have given the environment he needs.

@Sirzy

The supportive nature of Ds mainstream primary has massively helped shape him into the person he is today. As I said earlier it’s not mainstream v specialist but finding the school that can best meet the needs of the individual child. As great as they are I know the local specialist schools couldn’t have given the environment he needs.

Exactly this.

I find both settings seem to have things that my child would benefit from that the other doesn't so it's trying to find which setting they personally will get the most out of.

Realistically for many children with ASC, special school is not an option.
All my local special schools only take children with a learning disability. Ds does have a learning disability but even then the special schools were not suitable because the environments were not geared up for those who struggled with sensory difficulties and the class rooms were overcrowded with less spare space than mainstream. The learning disability was seen as the primary need but for many children with ASC, it will be the ASC needs that need most support.
Mainstream wasn't right for Ds either but he stayed in mainstream until the LA agreed to a place at a ASC school (independent), something that took several years of fighting for.

@Underhisi

Realistically for many children with ASC, special school is not an option. All my local special schools only take children with a learning disability. Ds does have a learning disability but even then the special schools were not suitable because the environments were not geared up for those who struggled with sensory difficulties and the class rooms were overcrowded with less spare space than mainstream. The learning disability was seen as the primary need but for many children with ASC, it will be the ASC needs that need most support. Mainstream wasn't right for Ds either but he stayed in mainstream until the LA agreed to a place at a ASC school (independent), something that took several years of fighting for.

I get you.

Not all special schools are suitable for all types of SEN.

In my LA there are only 3 special schools, and out of them only 1 would be a suitable setting for my child if I decided a special school was needed. The others are geared towards those with physical disabilities and severe learning difficulties. Even that one school isn't in the town we live in but 45 minutes drive away which isn't ideal when we have one car for the whole family. So venturing out of our LA means even further distances.

So even if we did decide a special school was necessary our choices are so limited. Places are also few and far between too.

I would be very wary of thinking that a 1:1 is a always possible. Budgets have been cut so much that it seems that it is only the most extreme cases (violent / escape risk / massively disruptive) get a 1:1. It might be the case that it would be the class teacher and a TA for half the day, potentially with both of them not necessarily experienced with children with autism. Sorry to be a bit bleak - believe me, I wish it were different.

@dabdab

I would be very wary of thinking that a 1:1 is a always possible. Budgets have been cut so much that it seems that it is only the most extreme cases (violent / escape risk / massively disruptive) get a 1:1. It might be the case that it would be the class teacher and a TA for half the day, potentially with both of them not necessarily experienced with children with autism. Sorry to be a bit bleak - believe me, I wish it were different.

I understand. I don't feel very hopeful about it.

If the school is named in section I of the EHCP and is the nearest suitable school your LA will provide transport, they also will pay the fees for an independent school so don’t feel you just have to look at local state schools.

Just wanted to add that you can also look at local independents that offer a mainstream curriculum as the environment may be more suitable than in a state school. With an EHCP you have lots of options.

@Sockpile

If the school is named in section I of the EHCP and is the nearest suitable school your LA will provide transport, they also will pay the fees for an independent school so don’t feel you just have to look at local state schools.

Thank you

I do worry about transport options at his age I just don't think he would cope with a school bus or taxi if i wasn't in a position to accompany him due to work.