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Original poster

Grammar school

50 replies

autumnkate · 21/02/2022 07:47

My son has a place to start year 7 at a grammar school in September.

We are considering moving across the country (better job options and nearer family) but I feel so guilty about his school!

Will I be doing him a massive disservice by moving him? The town we are considering has a good comp (62% get a 5 in english and maths at GCSE) but no grammar. I worry he won’t do as well.

Does anyone have any experience with moving children out of the grammar system? Would you? Thanks for any insights.

OP posts:

Whitefire · 21/02/2022 10:40

The OP clearly implied that to do well it has to be the grammar school.

Doesn't everyone get a results letter with a score on? You'll be able to see how that score compares to the lowest score admitted for this year.

x2boys · 21/02/2022 10:59

@AvonCallingBarksdale

I don't think it is offensive as such. I think people with bright children who have the misfortune to live in grammar areas tend to be very much in a bubble and just don't realise how many great comps there are out there

The “misfortune”?? What do you mean? We live in a grammar area - definitely not a misfortune. What an odd thing to say…

I expect people who live in Grammar school area ,s whose children don't get in ,don't quite feel as fortunate as you ....

Tigersonvaseline · 21/02/2022 11:02

Teen plus cat,in ye olden days poorer or more disorganized DC didn't have to compete it was much more fair and why df was able to get in,. Inspite of parents who felt it wasn't worth while.

Comp are getting better but unfortunately many have not been able to successfully educate those at the bottom nor the top, only the middle road.

I believe we need a far larger range of schools with more specialised areas not shoving them all into these massive one size fits all.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about these subjects:

General education Secondary education

Tigersonvaseline · 21/02/2022 11:03

X2boys, why should they feel less fortunate?

Tigersonvaseline · 21/02/2022 11:07

Autumn it's impossible to say!
We don't know how good or bad the comp is, Will your DC fall in with the wrong crowd?
Yes there are wrong crowds a plenty at grammar but more likely to come out with decent grade's.

What benefits to his life will he get from moving?
Are you in a rough areas in cupboard flat about to move to a detached house near a beautiful town?

Is the Gramma one of these top grammar's or more run of the mill??

x2boys · 21/02/2022 11:09

@Tigersonvaseline

X2boys, why should they feel less fortunate?

Because from what I have read on here ,if you live in Grammar area and your child doesn't get in the comprehensives are automatically inferior as all the brightest kids are creamed off for grammar school But anyway I just think it's a ridiculous system and only serves a few ,we haven't had Grammar schools in my town since the 1970,s ,we have some very good comps and some truely awful ones ,state education should be equal for all

Tigersonvaseline · 21/02/2022 11:13

Of course DC who don't get in are inferior!
It's certainly not the grammar's issue if the other schools aren't good.

Tigersonvaseline · 21/02/2022 11:14

Arf!!.
Equal for all but not all DC need the same things educationally!!

x2boys · 21/02/2022 11:17

@Tigersonvaseline

Of course DC who don't get in are inferior! It's certainly not the grammar's issue if the other schools aren't good.

Which kind of proves my point ,that parents of children who don't get in might not feel fortunate to live in a Grammar school area

Wordlewobble · 21/02/2022 11:19

We had the option of moving DS towards the end of year 7 @ GS and just before DD started Secondary. He was doing so well and it was such a lovely school. In the end we didn’t move largely for him (for him so glad we didn’t as at 18 he has turned into a such lovely lad and doing so well academically and staying at this school was absolutely the best thing). Less so for DD at a local Comp and DH’s career initially afterwards but he is ok now and fingers crossed DD turns a corner too.

x2boys · 21/02/2022 11:21

@Tigersonvaseline

Arf!!. Equal for all but not all DC need the same things educationally!!

I get that I have a child in a special school, However the point is there are some brilliant state comprehensive schools and some truly awful ones ,I mean really awful ,state education needs to be equal ,so kids have an equal chance of suceeding .

StrictlyAFemaleFemale · 21/02/2022 11:33

I went to a grammar school and very clearly remember being told dont assume youre going to ace these exams because youre at a grammar school. There are bright kids at comprehensives too.

TeenPlusCat · 21/02/2022 11:46

@autumnkate

Ok I guess my question is to those of you who have children at grammars.

Would you move them if you didn’t have to?

I don't think anyone wants to move from a known, good, school, whether that is a grammar, secondary modern, or a comp. I mean, why would you if it isn't necessary? But sometimes moving schools to make other things better is what you need to do.

The question you should be asking OP is, is the school you would likely get good? You said yes. So there is no reason why your DS shouldn't thrive there too, even if in y7 he has to do drama or art or history with a child like one of my DDs.
Look at the data for the school. Do high achievers do well? If they do then that's OK.

blanketyblanked · 21/02/2022 11:51

What does the school offer? Is it single sex, speciality in a subject, better sports provision, smaller classes? Are his friends going? Transport arrangements? Is he passionate about subjects that they have good facilities for e.g. science labs? Look at the individual merits of what it can offer

blanketyblanked · 21/02/2022 11:54

I never knew Mumsnet was so pro private schools and so anti grammar schools

MidIslandMum · 21/02/2022 11:54

Commenting as someone whose DC have gone to top grammars. They had a great time at school and have sailed through probably in the top 10% academically without feeling pressurised or overworked. Had we had to move like you though, I wouldn't have beaten myself up about giving up grammar places though as they would probably have been just as happy in a good comp. I have friends whose DC were all together with mine in the same state primary. If I think about the ones who were similarly bright say around nine years old, they are all pretty much where you would have expected them to be with their A Levels and the universities they have gone on to. And they went to a whole range of different types of schools. And most importantly they are all well-balanced and lovely young adults. Don't worry, it will all be fine.

Tigersonvaseline · 21/02/2022 11:55

X2boys I absolutely agree it needs to be equal And of an excellent standard but that doesn't mean removing what works and grammar usually definitely works!

mumsiedarlingrevolta · 21/02/2022 11:57

In an area with no grammar schools the bright children who would have been at grammar are at their local schools-probably in the top sets.

So in a decent state school-which it sounds like the one you are heading for is-then they should be getting good results.
There is no reason why your DS-who would be surrounded by other potentially high achieving children-shouldn't do well.

Not many children of that age want to move but sometimes circumstances mean that they have to.

It is a good time to move so he will start fresh at new school with everyone else.

Fingers crossed he settles in quickly and is happy there!

Whitefire · 21/02/2022 12:53

@blanketyblanked

I never knew Mumsnet was so pro private schools and so anti grammar schools

Well the vast majority don't live in a grammar school area so we are hardly going to be singing the praises of the grammar school system.

AvonCallingBarksdale · 21/02/2022 13:26

blanketyblanked
I never knew Mumsnet was so pro private schools and so anti grammar schools shock

MN hates GS much more than private schools! It’s ok to be financially advantaged but god forbid your child should pass an exam to get into a GS
GS only exist in certain parts of the country - private schools are likely present in every single county, but it’s always the GS that get the flack.
FWIW I wouldn’t move my DC from a good school that they were doing well at, regardless of Comp/GS. We happen to live in a GS area. We happen to have had 2 DC at GS who have done really well there.
If you’re very anti GS, probably best not to move to one of the few counties where they still exist 🤷‍♀️

BellJarVacuum · 21/02/2022 13:49

I don't understand the hatred of grammar schools on Mumsnet. It seems it's perfectly acceptable to buy a privileged education at the likes of Westminster but heaven forbid you happen to be clever enough to get a similar one for free.

Grammar schools would be much better if they were tutor proof but generally speaking it is the not so able over-prepped prep school DC who lower the academic bar in them. I think one fix could be to have a separate higher entrance threshold for DC coming from prep schools. You've still got the issue of the tutoring of state school DC but it tends to be much more intense in the private sector and many of those schools teach 11+ as part of lessons.

trollopolis · 21/02/2022 13:56

Your DS hasn't even started at secondary.

So he won't be moving out of a grammar system because he didn't start .

I'm another one who is wondering how come you are sure if a place before offers day. And wouid remind you that you'll have to make an in-year admission application when you do move. If the school in the town is full, he'll have to go to the next nearest one until a place comes up. But transport must be provided if that's more than 3 miles away.

TeenPlusCat · 21/02/2022 14:05

BellJar I don't think people hate grammar schools per se.

What people don't like is:
a) the tutoring - which means that bright children of poorer parents miss out to well tutored middle class children
b) the fact that the non-grammars are disadvantaged by not having the 'top set' children. This can mean there aren't sufficient number to offer e.g. single sciences or 2xMFL at GCSE which means children miss out
c) the pressure this puts on children age 10

To me, if people really thought the non-grammar options were equally good, then they'd be happy to not tutor and let nature takes its course. But they very often don't. Or they go private if their child doesn't pass the 11+.

If you live in a grammar system, you obviously do what you think is best for your child, which can well be tutoring for the 11+. But that doesn't mean that the system is overall beneficial. For that you need the non-grammars to be equally acceptable to parents whose children miss the pass criteria. And often they're not. ( I have read that in Bucks maybe they are, but in Kent they don't seem to be).

BellJarVacuum · 21/02/2022 14:37

@TeenPlusCat I agree. I know that not everyone is anti-grammar per se. I suppose it just riles me that our education system is a two-tier one where top private school privilege and competitive advantage is purchased and rather than focus on that, everyone seems to decry the small and underfunded grammar school sector. I do agree with what you said. Particularly the part about if all options genuinely were good options, it would be about finding the best fit for the child rather than trying to shoehorn them into the 'perceived to be better' option. I have seen first hand extremely bright and focused but poor DC just missing the 11+ thresholdwith no tutoring, no support from their state primaries and for the most part little understanding from home of the selection process. I have also seen prep school DC scraping in on a mountain of tutoring and then just not coping with the 'bigger class sizes' or rather the pace of learning and being pulled out at 13 to go back into the private sector. If grammar schools exist, a key principle should be fair access for those disadvantaged DC. Without that ethos, they should be abolished.

Whitefire · 21/02/2022 15:17

If you’re very anti GS, probably best not to move to one of the few counties where they still exist

Wasn't ever planning to, my dc are happily slumming it in the local comp.

Though I'm not particularly anti GS, but neither am I going to champion them.

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