Use of public spaces by teenagers - parks, benches etc

[daringdoris]

This is a pro-teenage post!

I'm looking for information about how providing appropriate outdoor spaces for teenagers is a good thing.

One side of the arguement is that nothing should be provided/if stuff is provided it'll be trashed/we'll have to put up CCTV to see what's going on/other people will feel intimidated.

I'd like to put some opposing arguments forward.

I remember reading some really interesting posts on here about how teenagers use public spaces like parks, and the different ways that teenage boys and girls use those spaces (and the lack of provision for girls, if I remember correctly) but I can't seem to find it!

If anyone can recommend any articles or research I'd be really grateful.

Make Space for Girls

This thread and this one might also be of interest to you.
Also This book

Thanks so much sillysmiles

I knew I remembered previous threads!

At the moment there isn't anything at all, so great to start off from an equal standpoint.

As a youth worker on of my bug bears is complaints about teens in the park

On more than one occasion a meme bet of public has told me I should call the police because ‘those kids are playing in the park again’

Uh huh!

I’ve tried to argue it and out it forward at policy meetings to no avail so good luck!

Would love info about the positives of actually having some provision at all, rather than none! and having provision that is part of a community (therefore encouraging responsibility/accountability etc)

Their space whilst still being part of a community. Not needing cctv to pre-empt incidents. Starting from a standpoint of trust and responsibility.

Or phrases to google to find out myself.

I have tried but am perhaps using the wrong terms as I've found some US research papers but not much else.

Will look at those threads now!

@SomePosters

As a youth worker on of my bug bears is complaints about teens in the park

On more than one occasion a meme bet of public has told me I should call the police because ‘those kids are playing in the park again’

Uh huh!

I’ve tried to argue it and out it forward at policy meetings to no avail so good luck!

Do they mention what they are doing at the park? Here there is a skate & BMW park, a youth type club that provides a safe space indoors every evening of the week until 9pm amongst other things- and yet there's always a group on the green who shout horrible things to passing women mostly, and another in the children's play park who leave glass/smashed bottles, empty cannisters and god knows what else everywhere. There's also someone who always says how unfair it is that people complain about the 2 problematic groups. Not saying all are like that, but I'd be surprised if someone kept mentioning if a group were minding their own business, being respectful and people felt comfortable walking past etc.

Teens using public spaces? Whoda think it?

We have a public space, benches, tables etc. Teens use all of them. Makes dog walking a little bit uncomfortable - all that public smooching!

It's older adults that try using those BBQ trays on the tables that cause the damage.

Great idea, OP. I came to add a link, but they are already here ^^

@daringdoris

Would love info about the positives of actually having some provision at all, rather than none! and having provision that is part of a community (therefore encouraging responsibility/accountability etc)

Their space whilst still being part of a community. Not needing cctv to pre-empt incidents. Starting from a standpoint of trust and responsibility.

Or phrases to google to find out myself.

I have tried but am perhaps using the wrong terms as I've found some US research papers but not much else.

Will look at those threads now!

Not to sound negative but points to consider. There will never be provision where everyone feels genuinely welcome, there will invariably be 'dominant' teams who commandeer the place. Responsibility then lies on whoever provided the space and encouraged use of it to ensure safety etc- in honesty is it worth it? Although 99.99999% of teens might not create trouble, although the 1 who does shouldn't ruin it for everyone, they also pose a risk to others.

in honesty is it worth it?

This is going to sound like pure idealism but if we want people to feel and act as part of a community then they need to feel they have equal access to public spaces.

Most places like libraries or council sports facilities that were vaguely supervised teenage-friendly spaces have shut down or have restrictive opening hours. Unless kids have parents that are happy for hoards of teenage friends to descend then the alternative will be the same kids hanging round public parks with nothing to do but "hang out".

Yes, teenagers in packs can seem intimidating and as a group they lack impulse control, but I hate how they are complained about for staying indoors gaming and then viewed with suspicion if they get out.

Also, I'd check out research from the Joseph Rowntree foundation about the provision of social spaces as a public good.

You'll probably also have luck looking at architectural research into the impact of how good public space design such as parks and green spaces can be a social, economic and political good.

This guidance document has a paragraph about providing spaces for teens to gather with the aim of reducing anti social behaviour:

www.sdcc.ie/en/download-it/guidelines/guidelines-for-designing-out-anti-social-behaviour.pdf

Actually there's a lot of different stuff if you search for designing out crime. It sounds like it's from a negative standpoint but if the outcome is that the right people can be convinced that we should be providing spaces for teens to hang out that's a start.

Your contributions are all great, thank you.

This is going to sound like pure idealism but if we want people to feel and act as part of a community then they need to feel they have equal access to public spaces.

Absolutely.

Where I lived before there was much more playground equipment for older children and teens. Those giant net/web climbing frames for example. Older children could play on them in the say and teens could sit in them in the evening. Here there is is hardly anything for children over about 8 if they aren't interested in the skate park. DS and his friends sit in a tree and chat/go on their phones.

Hello, someone sent out the bat signal.

Completely agree. We campaign for equality in public spaces, but the truth is that there isn't enough provision fullstop and what there is doesn't even cater for the majority of boys.

As a starting point, the UN Rights of the Child go up to 18, and these include the right to assemble and the right to play. The problem is, that teenage play quite often looks like loitering and hanging around, which really annoys councillors for some reason. (I mean, no one ever complains about old people loitering on benches...)

The other thing which is worth saying is that public space is particularly important to teenagers because it is the only place they have autonomy. As they don't tend to have control at school or at home., it's the only place they are free to be independent. And if they can't do that, how are they going to learn to be adults.

As a starting point for finding the research, our document here might be useful:

makespaceforgirls.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/Make-Space-for-Girls-Summary-of-Research-findings-December-2020-web.pdf

But we've got folders full of stuff, so if you are looking for particular information, do ask.

One side of the arguement is that nothing should be provided/if stuff is provided it'll be trashed/we'll have to put up CCTV to see what's going on/other people will feel intimidated

Yes, but one reason this happens is that we tend to put teenage facilities in a dark corner because we expect them to be antisocial. What if they were integrated with the rest of the park, in the places where other people go, with good lighting so that other people were using the park even in the evening?

Not to sound negative but points to consider. There will never be provision where everyone feels genuinely welcome, there will invariably be 'dominant' teams who commandeer the place. Responsibility then lies on whoever provided the space and encouraged use of it to ensure safety etc- in honesty is it worth it?

Yes it is, see above. But one way of designing this kind of trouble out is to create a series of spaces, so that no one group can territorialise them.

You'll probably also have luck looking at architectural research into the impact of how good public space design such as parks and green spaces can be a social, economic and political good

The health angle is also important. Activity levels drop in adolescence, more so for teenage girls, more so for those from ethnic minorities. And yet we never link this up with giving them facilities to be active on. Even walking to the park twice a week can make a difference. And swings- which teenagers girls love - can provide a decent level of activity.

Oh, this is fantastic. Thank you so much to makespaceforgirls and everybody else.

There is a chapter in the book called The Miracle Pill which talks about the different ways boys and girls use spaces like parks and what can be done to help.

@makespaceforgirls

One side of the arguement is that nothing should be provided/if stuff is provided it'll be trashed/we'll have to put up CCTV to see what's going on/other people will feel intimidated

Yes, but one reason this happens is that we tend to put teenage facilities in a dark corner because we expect them to be antisocial. What if they were integrated with the rest of the park, in the places where other people go, with good lighting so that other people were using the park even in the evening?

Exactly. Continental Eurorpe seem to be able to have public parks and spaces that aren't trashed. I think a lot of the reason behind that is inter-generational usage. I used of often use a really small park near my work during lunch times in Switzerland and you'd have a combination of mothers with small children, young adults on lunch or just chillin out, older men playing games, older women chatting and hanging out. I think it partly comes from apartment living where the local park is an extensively used.